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Alias (5735)

Alias
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http://ali.as/

Journal of Alias (5735)

Monday April 28, 2008
09:49 PM

Is use.perl.org really suitable for the general public?

[ #36266 ]

I see some people want a more public role for use.perl than the mirror ball we've come to love.

I for one though, wonder if it's suitable for this role, given that the front page http://use.perl.org/ is over a meg in size, and takes 5-10 minutes on a modem connection before you can see anything other than a blank screen...

It's even slow on a broadband connection sometimes.


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Is use.perl.org really suitable for the general public? 25 Comments More | Login | Reply /

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  • According to the excellent YSlow plugin [yahoo.com] for Firefox, about 900K of that is uncompressed YUI javascript. There's no excuse for that -- the raw YUI libraries are very well documented, which is pointless for a production website. I use scriptaculous [aculo.us] and prototype.js [prototypejs.org] for my own work and I use yuicompressor [yahoo.com] to squish my JS and then gzip it. Gzipped content works smoothly on all browsers except Safari.

    To make it work with Safari too, you have name your file .jsgz instead of .js.gz and then do the following in

        • When I complained about the horrendously long load times due to Javascript [perl.org], pudge nitpicked my whatever it was about how I complained about it

          False. I argued against your actual points where you were incorrect.

          basically told me I have no idea what I am talking about

          False. I told you that you had no idea what you were talking about in certain aspects. I even said you were right about some things, but obviously wrong about others.

          and refused to engage the question on technical grounds to any extent whatsoever

          Utterly false, as anyone can plainly see from the discussion.

            • A fine claim, considering your comment elsewhere on this thread:
              Shrug. The discussion you linked to contained technical discussion by me. Feel free to continue to misrepresent, though.

                • I quoted your own words.
                  Not any that backed up your claim.

                  Feel free to continue to misrepresent, though.
                  I don't.

                    • Huh. What reality do you live in where me saying that I don't care to explain myself to you means that I actually didn't actually discuss anything technical? Especially when the discussion shows that I did?

                      I don't really want you to explain that odd claim you're making, because I know you can't, and won't. I just wanted to point out you're being a stupid asshole, as usual.

                    • Telling people that they are stupid, arseholes, or both, is just what you do.

                      Nope. I almost never do it, actually. That you see me do it as a relatively high percentage of my posts does not mean other people do.

                      The reality I live in is the one in which picking out the bits where you can justifiably tell the other person they're wrong while completely ignoring everything else is and remains a refusal to engage the question

                      I didn't do that, of course, as the discussion showed.

                      Oh. But you probably don't mean "completely," "ignoring," or "everything else." I guess I shouldn't take you literally. You probably mean simply "not answering everything to my utter satisfaction," and to this charge, I not only plead guilty, but I do it proudly.

                    • No, that's not what I mean.

                      Hm. So what did you mean? If I am to take what you said literally, then you are living on another planet, because your description, taken literally, does not represent reality. So I gave an option of how to take you nonliterally. Have you another?

                      your sense of smugness

                      Wow, this is the pot calling the china black ...

                      so you had to engage in a passive-aggressive dance of being right

                      Ditto.

                      And as far as I'm concerned, you needn't lift a finger to fix the megabyte-size front page

                      And as far as I'm concerned, what you want has no effect on me whatsoever anyway.

                      My mistake was bringing my plight to you in hopes that you might consider this something obviously worth fixing for everyone who visits the site

                      Oh, fuck yourself with an anvil. Your mistake was in being an asshole to me, plain and simple.

                    • None of that thread had anything to do with me trying to be right about anything.

                      Riiiiiiiiight. Pull the other one.

                      So I tried to get an answer as to whether any site features I use require Javascript

                      You also tried to be an asshole. And you succeeded!

                      Clearly this is me being an arsehole to you [perl.org].

                      I never said you were an arsehole, I said you were an asshole. And yes, lines like the interface I do actually use is trivial to implement without any use of Javascript whatsoever (as if you could possibly know that) and So how about giving an example of how a feature I use requires YUI stuff, instead of skirting the matter with "you don't know what it's for" hints? are good examples of your assholishness. Thanks for

            • Why on earth are you feeding the troll? You've seen him in action before and he loves nothing better than to insult people, distort their arguments and generally completely ignore valid points they have. Once he's made his mind up, he's completely unwilling to listen to reason.

          • Or fork it and run your own!

            • I'm sure tons of people would love that but are scared off by the tons of mindshare that use.perl has accumulated over the years.

              • Well, you know, with the so-called 'community' and its pool of people if not dwindling then certainly stagnating having five 'forks' of the same shit simply because someone needed to jerk themselves off so they could either have their own or just to shit on someone elses' stuff, you'd think somone would get a fucking clue that maybe it's not all that productive.
                  • I don't have to be the effusive lavisher of praise to note the pathological egotism that prevails with those who, when they either don't get their way or want something of their own, decide to fragment that which already exists. I don't know if I'd call it a community so much as a collection of mutually self-interested egotists. There's plenty I don't really like about the look and feel of use.perl, but it does the job its supposed to and I respect the time, energy and resources that Pudge has invested in i

                    • I don't know if I'd call it a community so much as a collection of mutually self-interested egotists.

                      Works for me. That's my definition of community. Why should I be interested in people who don't even find themselves interesting?

                      --
                      J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
                    • Honey, I've not even been around for much of the better part of three years...really even longer than that. Do you spend your days browsing the archives? :) And I don't think I've seen you do too much other than whine about how nobody gushes over the P6 cabal. I can't think of anyone who can say they should be first to cast stones on the lack of sweetness and light.

                      I'm not mary poppins, I've never claimed to be either. My role to play for the most part, as Gnat so astutely noted once, was to be the one to

                    • "No, you’re just the … person … who is always there, ready to tell whomever that their desire for something better sucks and they should sit down and shut up."

                      I'm not always here but it frequently bothers me to see that things never change. It's more than a desire for 'something better' as that's a subjective guage and a frequent pedestal from which so many incursions are begun. I mean, nobody is going to be dumb enough to be honest about these things

                    • "If you really cared (and I have no illusion that you do), you could find out exactly what I've done in the past three years, including hundreds of commits, dozens of articles, countless answers to questions on mailing lists, hundreds of messages to mailing lists, a double handful of patches to Perl 5, maybe a dozen public talks, a couple of books, technical edits of several books, three or four releases of Parrot, the minutes of almost every Perl 6 design meeting, and, yes, a couple of dozen rants and comp

                    • I always respected the forkers a lot more, myself. They were definitely a step above the people who whined and whined and whined about how things should go and what everybody else should do.

                      (Please don't misread that to be in any way about you. I've only met you once and don't have you in mind at all; I'm thinking back to the participation I had in the early days of Perl 6; a participation which was a near-complete waste of time, not because Perl 6 was a bad idea, but because I was 100% unqualified for

                      --
                      J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
                  • In this case, one person lied about what I did and didn't do, one person said it is unfortunate that I run useperl, and another said tons of people would love it if I didn't.

                    Not that I care what they think. Assholes don't bring me down. But while I have had my own problems with her in the past, and she doesn't need my protection, hfb is the least of the problems with "role models" around here.

              • Perlbuzz doesn't allow random people to sign up and start blogging. That's the win that use.perl has over Perlbuzz.

  • There are various issues involved, but most people, just as Aristotle did, come in pointing fingers and telling me how to do things and how stupid I am for not doing those things, and I just couldn't care less to explain myself in such situations. If you'd like to talk about specific things away from the assholes like Aristotle, ping me. However, most of the issues people have with speed are due to two things: hardware (which is changing very soon) and serving software (which is not changing until we move

      • I (possibly mistakenly) thought that use.perl was your sort of beta-testing/experimental site for Slash stuff.

        No, that's correct, but in this case, we had some changes and the urgency of fixing and scale of problem dictated that we work on Slashdot directly, and as the issues are primarily not in the Slash code (though related to it), they just never got "backported," and then with the new network and hardware coming, I just didn't devote my own resources to bother doing it at all.

        I just got my cryptocard for the new network today. We'll be getting the new hardware soon. Huzzah!

        • Hi Pudge!

          First of all, let me thank you for all the work you've put into use.perl.org and making it what it is today. I really appreciate it and I think I speak for most of us.

          In any case, I decided to start wiki page concentrating the problems that we currently see with use.perl.org [perl.net.au]. Everyone can contribute to it, even without registration. It's not meant as a "Why use.perl.org sucks" page, but rather as a checklist for what to improve so the site will be better.

          You can also use the attached d [perl.net.au]

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