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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • 1. One argument for smokefree restaurants is that restaurants are workplaces, and employees should not be exposed to hazardous materials in the air at work. If a workplace has asbestos in the air, is it okay for the employer not to do anything about it, simply because it's private property? After all, in the ideal libertarian world the workers can always choose to work somewhere else.

    2. Aren't you the one with the sig equating abortion to killing babies? That seems pretty black-or-white and not condu

    • 1. Yep; I agree with that ideal libertarian world. If they don't like smoking they can choose to work somewhere else. But of course in practice it's not all that black and white... ;)

      2. Mostly I'd just like to get legitimacy for the viewpoint that abortion is or might be killing babies. Right now we're more concerned with protecting a mother's right to believe the baby in her womb is not a baby than we are with any rights the baby might have on the off chance that it's a person. We can't "force belief

      --
      J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
      • Mostly I'd just like to get legitimacy for the viewpoint that abortion is or might be killing babies. Right now we're more concerned with protecting a mother's right to believe the baby in her womb is not a baby than we are with any rights the baby might have on the off chance that it's a person.

        That's fine, but understand that abortion is intertwined in a rat's nest of issues: religion, medicine, crime (incest / rape), family planning, eugenics, the constitution/law, and politics.

        Understand that the

        • Understand that there will never be a "simple resolution" to the abortion issue.

          I disagree. I see treating a fetus as a person with full rights as a simple solution. Sure, there are some complications, most especially the point at which it becomes a fetus with full rights. But the solution is simple, even if there are complications surrounding it and its implementation.

          The Christian POV is that in the case of a pregnancy where both the mother and child are in danger, it is your obligation to try and save the child. The Jewish POV is the exact opposite -- do your best to save the mother.

          You misrepresent the "Christian POV." I believe, as do most Christians I know, that there is no specific religiously mandated obligation to either one over the other, and that the mother in most cases would be the primary obligation. I believe the proper Christian perspective in *all* situations is to pray and trust the guidance of the Holy Spirit (cf. Romans 6-8). I see nothing in the New Testament saying to favor the child of the mother.

          If you outlaw abortion, you are infringing on religious beliefs (and violating the separation of church and state, regardless of whatever other issues you touch).

          Separation of church and state, to the very limited extent that it exists in codified law in this country, does not mean that you can't "lesgislate morality/religious beliefs." We have Constitutional amendments to prove the point, outlawing slavery (the abolitionist movement was Christian at its core) and alcoholic beverages. We repealed the latter, but not for separation-of-church-and-state reasons.

          The only sense this could be considered a religious issue is if you say that believing the child in the womb is only a full person with full rights in a religious sense, that it cannot be arrived at otherwise, and that seems like an exceedingly odd thing to say. Sure, it is often (most often?) from a religious perspective that this point is made, but not always. And again, abolitionism, and the idea of slavery as evil, of the created equality of everyone, was most often coming from a religious perspective, too.