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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • Fear and Risk (Score:4, Interesting)

    by pudge (1) on 2002.07.24 13:41 (#11019) Homepage Journal
    When it comes down to it, people are afraid of change, plain and simple, for with change comes risk.

    I am not afraid of Perl 6, though I basically agree with your points. But I very much agree that I do not want to change, because with change comes risk. Why should I risk anything? Perl 5 is good. Perl 5 suits me well. I have no reason to change to Perl 6, with all its incredible uncertainty.

    In addition, it is not just risk, but time. Since I don't have any need for Perl 6, to switch to Perl 6 is a waste of my time, unless it's something I want to do, and it isn't.

    You make an excellent point about it being another project, and how it is less threatening if it is another project. I am told by the Perl 6 team that if I don't use Perl 6, and stick with Perl 5, that I am behind the times, that I am sticking with old stuff that isn't very good, that the future is Perl 6 and Perl 5 is a dead end. How is that not threatening?
    • I am told by the Perl 6 team that if I don't use Perl 6, and stick with Perl 5, that I am behind the times, that I am sticking with old stuff that isn't very good, that the future is Perl 6 and Perl 5 is a dead end. How is that not threatening?

      I stayed with perl 4, instead of moving to perl 5, for over 5 years. I "knew" that there were a large number of subtly incompatible changes with perl 5 and didn't want to track down the myriad subtle bugs that would start causing wierd problems.

      When I actually tri
      • Perl 6, will certainly be a bigger change to update code [than was Perl 5], but not a huge amount bigger.

        I disagree. I would have a ton of code to change to actually be using Perl 6. Thousands upon thousands of $ signs, if nothing else. Of course, there may be a Perl 5 compatibility mode of some sort, but if I am using Perl 5 anyway, what's the point?

        But again, with Perl 5, there was a reason to upgrade: to take advantage of the large number of modules, to fix longstanding bugs, to use OOP, etc. The
        • First off, I'm rather neutral about Perl6 maybe a shade positive.

          Now, I started using Perl back in 1996/1997 so I missed the transition from Perl4 to Perl5. However, I did have to deal with some code written in Perl4.

          My impression is that most people took several years to switch between the two and that most had switched (say a sigma or two of the population for the statistics folks out there) to Perl5 after 5 years. That's just a WAG on my part.

          I'm think that it will take almost 10 years for folks (a la
    • I have no reason to change to Perl 6, with all its incredible uncertainty.

      This is a perfectly valid reason to not change over to perl 6. In fact, it's a damned good reason that's far too often overlooked in general. Change for the sake of change is often unwise, in perl and anything else. Yes, you need change to make progress, but swapping something brand new into production 'just because' is foolish.

      I am told by the Perl 6 team that if I don't use Perl 6, and stick with Perl 5, that I am behind the t

  • reason to switch (Score:3, Insightful)

    by wickline (135) on 2002.07.24 19:00 (#11034) Journal
    I love perl because it lets me think about interesting things.
    When I have a problem, it's a problem that's interesting to
    think about. Perl does the un-interesting things for me.

    Without perl, this is at the level of "interesting problem":
        http://www.techinterview.org/Puzzles/fog0000000080.html

    With perl, it's trivial. You don't even think about it. You
    get to spend your brain cycles on harder problems, your notion
    of interesting is elevated.

    When you upgrade from perl4 to perl5, you find that whole
    classes of "details" you had to worry about previously just
    go away. You have new tools which let you simply gloss over
    things. A %HoHoA "just works" instead of being a delicate
    dance of split() and join() and/or a fragile body of code
    without stricture.

    I'm expecting the same from perl6.

    Some things that are hard problems in perl5 will be simple.
    hyperoperators, continuations, better exception handling,
    curried functions, built-in grammar support... all of these
    will make hard things easier and will elevate my notion of
    interesting.

    Sure, you could try to add all that to perl5, and in fact
    it looks as though various folks are doing just that. I'm
    not in a position to say which is better. However, given
    that these things are being designed into perl6 and are
    added into perl5 with shoehorns and elbow greese, I think
    the perl6 implementation will probably "feel better" to me.

    I'd rather learn a new language to get all these toys than
    stick with an old language and wait for the lesser ported
    version of the toys. It doesn't hurt that I don't feel like
    the syntax changes are all that dramatic. I don't feel like
    I'm learning a new language, which makes the switch to six
    even more worth while.

    FWIW,

    -matt
  • Nobody is even forcing you to use the official Perl 5.

    I am sure everybody is aware that Alan Cox still maintains the 2.0 and 2.2 Linux kernel series despite the Linux stable kernel now being a mature 2.4.19 .

    The same goes for Perl - if not to the same extreme. There is sufficient vested interest for new modules to work with perl 5 and for perl 5 to continue improving even if it means sacrificing some innovation for the sake of legacy code. Perl 6 however need not be hampered in innovation by such concerns
    --

    @JAPH = qw(Hacker Perl Another Just);
    print reverse @JAPH;
    • Other than employers, that is ... Some people code Perl for money, not just pleasure.
      • Employers aren't going to force you to upgrade perl.

        Although this is the case with Java and VisualBroken that has not been a problem with perl or linux.

        Most of the perl I code is for money. Most of the time employers dictate that we have to use out of date systems rather than cutting edge systems.

        I mean where I work now I have to install old linux distros or download the newest ISO and burn it to disk. My employer doesn't care whether I use perl 5.00054 or 5.8 - I currently use a mix of perl 5.5 and 5.6
        --

        @JAPH = qw(Hacker Perl Another Just);
        print reverse @JAPH;
    • I think you're reading this wrongly. The point I was trying to make was that by calling Perl 6 "Perl 6" the developers are making the implicit assertion that it'll be the successor to Perl 5, and the implicit assertion the language a Perl programmer is going to be programming in five years time.

      Sure, no-one's going to come into my office and put a gun to my head and demand that I upgrade from Perl 5 to Perl 6. However you might look at it though, choosing to stick to a previous version number for a la