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  • by ziggy (25) on 2003.05.20 18:45 (#20321) Journal
    Of course what does this have to do with perl - well we just had YAPC::Israel, unlike YAPC::Europe or any conference in the normal world, this would not welcome anybody from neighbouring countrys - arabs or palestinians who managed to make it through Isreals borders, checkpoints and snipers wouldn't be welcome.
    And exactly how was the YAPC::Israel organizing team supposed to supercede Israel's immigration policies?

    Waitasecond. Last I checked, peace treaties were in place between Israel, Jordan and Egypt. Do you have any proof that Egyptian or Jordanian Perl hackers were turned away at the border or by the organizing committee? And if they were turned away at the border, what exactly was the organizing committee supposed to do about it?

    Were there any arabs at YAPC::Israel? Unlike other conferences which are held mostly in english - a language spoken or at least understood by most hackers world wide, this conference was almost exclusively in hebrew.
    Are the organizers of the German Perl Workshop similarly deserving of scorn because many of their sessions are in German, another language that the vast majority of Perl programmers do not understand? No, because any double standard is fair if it highlights or exacerbates the atrocities committed by the Israelis!

    Last I checked, a few sessions were being held in English to accomodate non-Israeli presenters and visitors.

    Finally why has no-one from israeli spoken out about these atrocities, can we assume tacit acceptance that their lives are worth several of their neighbours or that they are just pretending its not happening or not relevent.
    Translation: Why aren't Israelis agreeing with me? We've been over this many times before...
    I think most british or american perl mongers are happy to bring attention to their nations ills - there are many many things about the UK that I dislike and I have mentioned them and even written to my MP about them! All I ever see here is americans claiming that I am anti-semetic for pointing out that Isreal is the biggest problem facing world peace and human rights and democracy in the middle east.
    Um, Israelis are highly critical of their government. There's lots of criticism of the Israeli government by their citizens. You don't know about it because (1) ignoring it bolsters your (rather uncompelling) case and (2) much of it is published in Hebrew. (The fact that a lot of this criticism is both on the web and published in English surely won't have any impact on your opinions -- your mind is already made up!)

    And if you truly want to highlight "Israel's atrocities" as "the biggest problem facing world peace", may I suggest that you at least try to understand the issues, stop parroting one-sided anti-Israeli screeds and endeavor to present a more balanced picture of how you think the violence (both from the IDF and the terrorists) can stop. (If you haven't been keeping track, there's a huge difference between that and calling you an anti-semite. If you care, that is.)

    • Several quick comments on this thread:

      (1) YAPC::Israel took money and registration information from anyone who expressed interest. I find it very difficult to believe that anyone was turned away because of citizenship.

      (2) A regular participant in the Israeli Perl mailing list is Lebanese. So far as I can tell, he has been treated with only the greatest of respect and kindness. You can be sure that there are racists and bigots in Israel, and I'm sure that some of them are Perl programmers. But to paint
      • This is what I wanted to hear!

        Each time I hear about the situation there I lose hope that anybody in my community (open source or perl) gives a fuck about the victims (predominantly palestinian, especially if you consider homelessness, etc).

        Its good to hear that mongers in Israel are leading by example - I don't see any of this in the Tech, Open Source or Perl media and that makes it fraustrating. It seems as though my community is one that stands by as this happens.

        Thanks for giving me some faith in


        @JAPH = qw(Hacker Perl Another Just);
        print reverse @JAPH;
    • Man, I would have loved the chance to practice my Hebrew at YAPC::Israel and try to use the language for expressing Perl concepts. Does that make me Zionist? Not so, for I've said some pretty underhanded things about Ariel Sharon et al. Does that make me anti-Semitic?

      J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
      • My hebrew is very poor, I can just about write my name Aleph H*mumble* *mumble*, at least I used to be able to when I was reading up on Qaballah (which renders the very small set of very old hebrew I did know pretty much useless outside of discussions with Aleister Crowley geeks).

        Saying nasty things about Sharon? I would have thought most people who watch the news on TV ( except perhaps certain US TV channels *cough*fox*cough* ) has too.

        Although puzzlingly he got elected leader there.


        @JAPH = qw(Hacker Perl Another Just);
        print reverse @JAPH;
        • It's not puzzling at all. I'm not an Israeli (though I lived there for a couple of years as a journalist) but had I been voting, I probably would have voted for him. It was the first time in my career as as (hypothetical) voter in Israeli elections that I would have voted for Likud. But given that the response to Barak's far-reaching proposals had been Palestinian violence, that is to say, an unofficial but real renunciation of the Oslo Accords, voting against someone who had opposed the accords was a sens