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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • When I think of scrottie code, these are the characteristics that come to mind:

    • minimal (so that it can run on your old hardware)
    • concise (for its own sake)
    • unusual (...your penchant for coroutines and byte code manipulation comes to mind)

    When I think of Java code, I think it's:

    • bloated
    • wordy
    • normal (in the worst way possible)

    That's why I find it unusual that someone like you would find reasons to like Java. But if you like it, whatever.

    I know that you don't actually code in it that much

    • "I know that you don't actually code in it that much. ;-)"

      That's key. I can take lots of stuff in small doses, and enjoy it. Just not PHP.

      When writing Java, I used to use kaffe and jikes. Both are pretty small, and both are open source and support my old, slow hardware. jikes is extremely fast. kaffe only does 1.1ish or 1.2ish, but at the time you had to program down to that version anyway to support MS's fuxored Java version they distributed with IE. And then compared to Flash, which was barely progr
      • It’s not the least bit out of place to worry about which classes can see which other classes and what kind of interfaces they’re presenting for each other.

        Yah [].

        • No, actually... I intentionally avoided discussion of private, protected, public etc because of this essay. I said "interfaces" and "which classes can see each other", which is in reference not to hiding bits of themselves but simply who has references to who and what the basic topology of the application is. You can hardly invoke the "stay out of my livingroom not because I have a shotgun" argument to justify writing a God Object. Sometimes strong typing makes sense; aside from that, large projects need
          • You can hardly invoke the “stay out of my livingroom not because I have a shotgun” argument to justify writing a God Object.

            But you don’t need mandatory controls if you’re writing a God object either. You won’t understand the need for them until you try to do good OO design, just like a ten-liner can be written without strictures too. Access controls are just another aspect of the sort of design you are talking about.

            It makes me sick to be associated with a language where

            • Quick recap.

              1. I argued that Perl programmers could benefit from some time spent on OO design, and give thought to things like interfaces and which objects can see which other objects.

              2. You object on the grounds that Perl doesn't need forced encapsulation.

              3. I clarify that at no point in that point did I argue for forced encapsulation (though I did at another point, but at that point, I was talking about something else). I restate that, ignoring enforced encapsulation, Perl programmers don't do nearly as
              • What? Where have I been saying that Perl does not need forced encapsulation? First I agreed with you, then I argued twice that Perl does need mandatory controls, and now you tell me I said the opposite. Did you even read what I was saying? Or did you immediately go crosseyed and started looking for a misinterpretation of what you said so you had some grounds to get pissed off again?

                I agree that we have a case of someone being a twit here, but it ain’t me.

                • Crossed eyes? Perhaps. Let me re-read, in that case.

                  "Access controls are just another aspect of the sort of design you are talking about."

                  Okay, they're another aspect of it -- does this mean that good design is pointless because access controls are pointless (which is how I took it) or does it mean that, being a seperate aspect, they're simply related in some ways but not others, and if that's the case, what did I fail to read between the lines?

                  "I’m equally sick of the “no infatuation with enf