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NOTE: use Perl; is on undef hiatus. You can read content, but you can't post it. More info will be forthcoming forthcomingly.

All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • The source code for the site is available. Commit access is easy to get. If you have a better design, nothing stands in the way of your improvements.

    • About ten years of lost progress stand in the way of improvements. Need I list the number of programming languages that came and went in that time?

      Thankfully I am not paying for any of the group developing perl 6, I would be pretty annoyed if that were the case.

      I can fix the webpage, sure. I cannot, however, fix the last 10 years of perl 6 debacle.

      • I cannot, however, fix the last 10 years of perl 6 debacle.

        So do you have anything useful to say, or are you just saying "GODDAMN THAT SUCKS WAH WAH WAH YOU ALL ARE DOODOOHEADS FOR WORKING ON IT," because really that's about all I'm seeing.

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        xoa

        • Let me spell it out for you: drop this insane perl 6 thing immediately. Give us good, stable threading in perl 5 instead of self-hosting grammars in perl 6. Et cetera. We are your user base. Or used to be... - ank
          • drop this insane perl 6 thing immediately. Give us good, stable threading in perl 5 instead of self-hosting grammars in perl 6.

            See, now that's something we can address, if a bit obnoxious.

            Here's what you're missing: Perl 6 and "good stable threading in perl 5" are not mutually exclusive. It's not as if the people working on Perl 6 would necessarily working on your pet projects. Fact is, Perl 6 is not at all a distraction from Perl 5. If anything, it's feeding Perl 5.

            If you want improved threading in Perl 5, there are a number of ways to get it, but bashing Perl 6 isn't the answer.

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            xoa

            • Let me insist: trying to build Perl 6 is less useful to real, practical perl than actually working on Perl 5. If you think proper OO syntax, multithreading, better speed, etc are "pet projects" of mine, then we really have nothing more to discuss, since I believe those are major issues in perl 5 that should have priority over perl 6 work. You can't expect me to believe that the perl 6 team can't work on that.

              Also, I think the point which is lost is that the users aren't clamoring for a "lexically overridea

              • Let me insist: trying to build Perl 6 is less useful to real, practical perl than actually working on Perl 5.

                Let me write that more correctly for you:

                trying to build Perl 6 is less useful to me than actually working on Perl 5.

                Everyone's got different itches to scratch. It's all a matter of who's doing the scratching.

                You can't expect me to believe that the perl 6 team can't work on that.

                I don't think that you understand how open source projects work.

                People are not assigned to work on certain pro

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                xoa

                • Rewrite all you want, that doesn't make it true.

                  • You're stating your opinion. Opinions are neither true nor false. You find X to be more important than Y. Others disagree. That's how it goes.

                    The tragedy here is that you're trying to convince people to work on your concerns by bashing the work of others. I can guarantee you it won't work.

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                    xoa

                    • If there's anything I really want or need, I can work on it, or start my own project. All I'm trying to do is send a message, after many years of contemplation. Again, I am not alone, and the issues I mentioned are real and don't affect just myself.

                      I know it's hard to accept, but since the RFCs, perl 6 has pretty much been a lost cause. Also, I don't value someone's work just because someone sweats or holds weekly meetings. There's only three things I care for: delivery, delivery, delivery.

                      You have lost t

                    • If anything, I'm a bit too blunt, but that's the way I am.

                      How's that workin' out for you, as far as bringing people around to your way of thinking?

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                      xoa

                    • Oh, I see what you did there - ignored the whole point. Well done!
                    • Again, I am not alone, and the issues I mentioned are real and don't affect just myself.

                      And the people you are talking to don't care. They have their goals set. They are not interested in your goals. Period.

                      Also, I don't value someone's work just because someone sweats or holds weekly meetings.

                      Noone expects you to. You are not their userbase.

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                      J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
                    • If you can't even see the problem - or even understand who the user base is - you are definitely part of the problem. Watch perl slide off the top 10 languages and tell me you don't care. Please, go ahead. -- ank
                    • No, I'm not part of the problem. I'm just some guy. I have no obligation at all to fix the Perl community or to make it work how you want, and I'm probably unqualified to do so. I'm as much a "part of the problem" as my three year old son is. I am completely uninvolved, other than commenting on this web forum. I'm just trying to assist you in clarifying what the people you are talking to in thinking. If you don't like my assistance, you can have a complete refund. :)

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                      J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
                    • And the people you are talking to don't care. They have their goals set. They are not interested in your goals. Period.

                      Don't read more into this than what it says. I didn't say these people SHOULD be this way. I said they ARE this way.

                      If you want to read more into that, then you're the problem, I think.

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                      J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
                  • You seem to be postulating an objective standard for something that is completely subjective.

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                    J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
              • ...since I believe those are major issues in perl 5 that should have priority over perl 6 work. You can't expect me to believe that the perl 6 team can't work on that.

                You seem to be operating from an assumption that most of us working on Perl 6 would instead be spending our time and energy on Perl 5 if Perl 6 didn't exist. The question is not whether we can work on Perl 5 major issues, the question is whether we'd be motivated to do so.

                I know that this assumption is not true in my case -- if I wasn't wo

              • You can't expect me to believe that the [Perl 6] team can't work on that.

                I tried, repeatedly. I didn't get very far. Given the pace of Perl 5 major releases, it'll be several years before misfeatures such as the SUPER [cpan.org] static bug gets fixed in the core, if it ever gets fixed.

                That has nothing to do with a lack of resources and nothing at all to do with so-called distractions from Perl 6.

              • I think the point which is lost is that the users aren't clamoring for a "lexically overrideable, self-hosting grammar engine."

                Devel::Declare [cpan.org] isn't self-hosted, but it's an important development in Perl 5 language extensibility all the same. See also Regexp::Grammars [cpan.org].