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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • Certification is an artificial incline, usually created by those who stand the most to profit from it. After the initial sunk cost of getting employers to believe in this artificial slope, such a corporation then gets to sit back and rake in dough based on the now artificially created demand for certifications and certification support (trainings, books, infrastructure, and so on).

    I think Stonehenge's ethics are higher than that. At the moment, I don't see any purpose in creating an artificial slope for

    --
    • Randal L. Schwartz
    • Stonehenge
    • So the next time I need a doctor, I should google their reputation and not give two hoots about their degree? References and reputation go a long way, but in most respected disciplines having some form of degree/certification is essential. (Note the word 'respected') You're the exception. It's not entirely fair to the rest of us who have neither the desire nor the personality type to post thousands of times on perlmonks and moderate newsgroups!

      brian's argument is weak, whether you agree with him or not. He doesn't back up his points. I have never heard of someone suing Sun because a Java certified engineer screwed up on the job. Have you?

      And why do you and him bring up Stonehenge so much? Do the Stonehenge experts have something to lose if certification becomes a reality? ;)

      • For a discipline like being a doctor, there is a clear formal education requirement to be able to "practice medicine", but yes, to some degree, you must rely on public reputation and personal experience to know how to pick a particular doctor.

        So we "certify" the formal part, and the reputation part fills in the gaps.

        But when's the last time there was a formal body of education required to be a programmer in general? I've never known any two programmers who got their education the same way. Ever.

        And,

        --
        • Randal L. Schwartz
        • Stonehenge
        • No. This is a rediculous statement.

          "Many people may want a Perl certification, but how many people want to be the one who is legally liable for the certificant who messes up?"

          The only one liable is the "certificant". Otherwise we wouldn't have any other certification process out there. There wouldn't be a CISCO, JAVA, MICROSOFT, LINUX+, A+, et al. if there were legal ramifications to the certifier.

          That is a bad argument. If you don't want a certification process that is fine. Trying to throw "but we m

      • I bring up Stonehenge because that is a lot of my Perl experience. We do not have anything to lose because we have exactly none of the certification market now.

        My argument is simply my experience as the person who actually seriously investigated doing this, seeking the advice of my attorneys and accountants. All I see anyone else doing is theorizing. I do not see anyone doing their homework.

        You don't ever hear about anyone suing Sun, Microsoft, and Cisco because really big companies would lawyer the plaintiff to death. However, you do not base future risk on past performance. If you are serious about the endeavour, you have to evaluate the risk. Anyone who ignores that is asking for trouble. All I see are people ignoring the risk.
        • brian, is there any case law you can share with us that bears specifically on the subject of software testers being held liable? I've done a fair bit of homework on this subject myself, and I find the advice you're getting from your attorneys rather hard to swallow. For example, if testing agencies in general are really taking on so much liability, why wouldn't the deep-pocket Dept. of Motor Vehicles get sued every time a licensed driver causes an accident? It's simply because passing a test doesn't guara
          --

          Dr. Tim Maher
          CEO, Consultix
          Perl and UNIX Training [teachmeperl.com]
      • Well, in my experience, one's education background doesn't mean much in this business. I don't think a certificate is essential for Perl programming to be respected. But I think certification can be very helpful, if done right. I simply don't understand all the pessimism and venom. This subject has been beaten to death, and I feel that nothing will ever happen, short of a revolt.
        • I think the best thing I've heard about certification was at TPC when someone said, "Sure it may be meaningless, but it's good to get HR to think you're not a boob." If we could make it better than meaningless, all the better. I think it's worth thinking about. I just haven't seen any examples that I think are worth tuits. As for fooling HR, I'll use petdance's Getting Hired tips instead and feel better about it.
          --
          rjbs
      • I have a scope issue with your analogy. Perl is just one of the tools used by a programmer (sys admin, etc.) and certifying one tool does not really make sense to me. Continuing your analogy, does that mean you would expect your doctor to be certified in the use of a certain size and brand of scalpel?
        • Look at the ads: Some say Perl knowladge is an advantage (among 30 other things that might be more important). Other say 3 years experience in Perl, mod_perl, DBI, SQL.

          In the former case you are right. Probaly a Perl certificate won't mean much.
          In my understanding the article of Tim talks about all the others where Perl is the major tool in your craft. Or rather, he is talking about all the cases when instead of Perl they are expecting Java or C++ for the same task.

          --
      • References and reputation go a long way, but in most respected disciplines having some form of degree/certification is essential.

        So you are saying that Perl programming, not having such a thing, is therefore not one of the most respected disciplines? Fine by me, I guess.

        You're the exception. It's not entirely fair to the rest of us who have neither the desire nor the personality type to post thousands of times on perlmonks and moderate newsgroups!

        Excuse me, but you're actually making the argument th