use Perl

• FUD (Score:2)

  by petdance (2468)

  First off, I don't let it actually bother me. I don't take it as an emotional issue. It's only a programming language. To trolls who don't bother with anything more than "I hear Perl is dead", all they really deserve is an "I assure you it's not." As far as "Java libraries have gotten so much better and Perl 6 hasn't come out," there's not much to argue there. Yes, Java progresses, and Perl 6 hasn't come out. It's great that you jumped into Parrot at the hackathon because Perl 6 needs all the help we

  --
  

  --
  xoa
  • Re:FUD (Score:1)

    by kid51 (5328) on 2006.11.19 13:27 (#51753) Homepage Journal

    Are Java libraries to any extent open-source creations or are they entirely commercial products?

    With proprietary commercial products, unless you've been invited to be a beta-tester, you are entirely at the mercy of the software's producer as to when the next upgrade will come out. E.g., MS Vista. An individual developer working at company X has no control over that software's release date. At best, he can pester management to purchase it once it does appear. For all practical purposes, the developer has no agency.

    With Open Source software, either (a) the software is entirely or almost entirely the product of community volunteers; or (b) the software is to a considerable extent the product of a company which releases the code under an OS license, will accept community contributions to the code, and expects to make money by selling services and support. In either (a) or (b), developer X can affect the software release date by making contributions to the code base on either his employer's time or his own time. In this case, the developer does have agency with respect to the release date -- and to the quality of the software as well.

    Of course, most of the time, most developers don't exercise agency even when they have it. They treat the release date of Perl 6 in the same way they treat the release date of Vista -- as something which they cannot possibly affect and can only grouse about.

    I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile to call these distinctions to the attention of people who are prone to that sort of grousing?

    Reply to This

    Parent

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Aristotle (5147)

      There are massive quantities of free-as-in-speech Java libraries, at least as much stuff as there is on CPAN. The Apache Software Foundation is home to a lot of very popular projects. However, overall, Java does not have a central repository, and the cultural conventions of free Java code are not quite as coherent as those of CPAN stuff.

      Perl remains king with CPAN, but Java is not a bad choice in that area.
      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Dom2 (2981)

        The difference I've found with Java is not that the code isn't out there. It's finding it. Google helps, but not in the way that search.cpan.org does. And, as you say, there's little-to-no coherency in file layouts, build scripts and all that sort of thing. It's a shame, as there is some really good code out there.
        • Re: (Score:2)

          by lachoy (1663)

          I agree with finding the code, There are a few known quantities (jakarta, codehaus) and some well-known places to look for links. But there's no CPAN, and certainly nothing like the infrastructure that's built up around it.

          But I disagree about the build. Nearly all projects have an Ant build script (build.xml) or, less commonly, a Maven build (project.xml). Not all of them have the same targets, but it's there and sufficiently readable to use.

          There is some consistency with file layouts, but a number of
          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Dom2 (2981)

            I agree with finding the code, There are a few known quantities (jakarta, codehaus) and some well-known places to look for links. But there's no CPAN, and certainly nothing like the infrastructure that's built up around it.

            Yep, they are a couple of well known places (and usually pretty good). But it's still not as integrated as CPAN.

            But I disagree about the build. Nearly all projects have an Ant build script (build.xml) or, less commonly, a Maven build (project.xml). Not all of them have the sam
            • Re: (Score:2)

              by lachoy (1663)

              Having been down that road, I know why people do it at least. The number of things (like you, log4j) that expect to find their configuration files in the root of the CLASSPATH means it's much easier to just throw things in with your source and copy them into the build tree...

              Yeah, I know why they do it too, but I still don't like it. It's just as easy (and IMO less confusing) to create a 'conf' directory and put that on the classpath. But that's a minor quibble.
              • Re: (Score:2)

                by Dom2 (2981)

                Having been down that road, I know why people do it at least. The number of things (like you, log4j) that expect to find their configuration files in the root of the CLASSPATH means it's much easier to just throw things in with your source and copy them into the build tree...

                Yeah, I know why they do it too, but I still don't like it. It's just as easy (and IMO less confusing) to create a 'conf' directory and put that on the classpath. But that's a minor quibble.

                Ah, but if you're using an ID