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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • That was his whole purpose in coming as a man in the first place. To save his people for their sins. The only way to do that was to be the perfect sacrifice. Being God, he *could have* saved himself at any time he wanted. He chose to sacrifice himself so that his people could have a right relationship with their God.
    • Thank you.

      I myself am not particularly religious, but I was raised in a religious manner.

      It seems to me that the entire "blame" issue seems to overlook some pretty important issues (and I'll not address the issue of Jesus and God being the same... since Jesus is referred to as the "son of God" I will refer to them as seperate entities... even tho that may not be so).

      - Did God know that Jesus was going to die?

      - Did God want Jesus to die?

      - Could God have stopped the death of Jesus if desired?

      - Did God p
      • I has to do with love. God could have created Adam and Eve as perfect beings that blindly did what he wanted. Where is the love there? Instead he created them innocent with the ability to choose to obey. God knowing they would "fall" into sin created a way that people could be reconciled back to a Holy, righteous, God who cannot wink at sin.

        Q: Did God know that Jesus was going to die?
        A: Certainly. The Bible states the plan was created even before the foundations of this world were set.

        Q: Did God want

        • Q: Did God know that Jesus was going to die?
          A: Certainly. The Bible states the plan was created even before the foundations of this world were set.


          I guess my point was/is... how can anyone be to blame?

          They were nothing but pawns.

          Or... was there some way to "surprise" God and actually make something he willed not happen? Was there some way to foil the "plan"?

          I just have a hard time believing that there is fate/destiny and free will at the same time.

          I mean... it is kind of like me and my two year old boy. He can tell me "no"... but, at the end of the day... he is going to do what I say.

          He really has no choice in the matter. I don't consider him to have free will. He will, eventually... but not until he is ready.

          I could almost see the God/man relationship being the same... but... I can't tell you what is going to happen to my son tomorrow, or a week from now.

          So, it really isn't the same at all.
          • Free will is simple this...I can choose my individual actions within my nature. Before a person is saved they will not choose God because they have a sin nature and a dead spirit. After a person is saved I can choose to do the will of God because now I still have a sin nature but now my *spirit* is quickened. As simple as that. Free will has been so twisted to mean anything that it means nothing in most contexts.
          • Just so you know, I (and the Bible) disagree with the statement by RobertX that Before a person is saved they will not choose God because they have a sin nature and a dead spirit. This would make it impossible to be saved, since you have to choose God to be saved.

            The idea that people are inherently sinful is not found in the Bible, whether it be the idea that people inherit sin from Adam (contradicted in Ezekiel 18) or some other version. However, the Bible does teach that everyone sins (at least, those

            --
            J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
            • Just so you know, I (and the Bible) disagree with the statement by RobertX that Before a person is saved they will not choose God because they have a sin nature and a dead spirit. This would make it impossible to be saved, since you have to choose God to be saved.

              Not at all. The idea -- which is supported by the Bible -- is that a person will not choose God until God works in his heart. See Ephesians 1. I don't come down on any side of this debate, but there is clearly support for both positions.

              The
            • "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. -- Romans 3:10-12

              Why? Because God has not done a work on their hear and made their spirit alive.