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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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Moose, Padre, and why the burden of proof is on the cultists 10 Comments More | Login | Reply /

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  • is that it doesn't really matter what you think. A considerable portion of the rest of the world will end up using Moose irrespective of your opinion of it. Will you accept it in your dependencies and spend your time working on something useful, or you dedicate the remainder of your life to shaving Yak::Tiny?

    • A considerable portion? Really? Most people I run into using Perl don't even know there's a CPAN.

      And, isn't this the same tired argument about why we should be using whatever the hot new technolgy is? I've lost count how many times I've been told this about some Perl module or framework. Indeed, if that's really what you believe, why do you even use Perl? You should be using Java, since even more of the world uses that. And Windows too. And ..., and ..., and ...

      Why do you care what Adam decides to use or no

      • You merely whine like a fanboi without responding to any of the actual issues Adam raises and that Moose people acknowledge. Moose might be a great project, but the fucking fanbois like you are enough to keep me away (despite how cool the core Moose people are).

        This is just sadly ironic. You're saying you are letting the community decide for you what you should and shouldn't explore technically without taking the project itself into account. We have all had our fanboi moments. But, as a Moose developer, I w

        • I think you don't understand irony. I'm not letting anyone choose for me. I'm big enough to make my own decisions.

          • Irony (from the Ancient Greek εἰρωνεία eirōneía, meaning hypocrisy, deception, or feigned ignorance) is a literary or rhetorical device, in which there is an incongruity or discordance between what one says or does and what one means or what is generally understood.

            The incongruity between what you said:

            the fucking fanbois like you are enough to keep me away

            and what you mean

            I'm not letting anyone choose for me. I'm big enough to make my own decisions.

            Seemed

        • "It seems however that this whole thread has been a series of people telling other people that what they can and cannot do in a public forum" - that is a good characterisation of the circumstances - but I think we need to go a bit deeper here and explain why it is now that people started to do that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Whys - anyone?). Yes - CPAN contributors should be free to choose any way they want to code their own modules - but on the other hand those that add these modules as dependencies

    • I wonder if something like the Badger framework (Andy Wardley) would give most of what you want with Moose but with better numbers. I have never seen them compared. The benefit I see is that Badger doesn't have outside dependencies so would be easier to "ship" with Padre.

      Just a thought...

      • Last I looked at it Badger had a totally different set of goals than Moose. Badger was the distillation of what Andy Wardley had been using for building Perl applications while Moose is specifically about building a good MOP based Object Framework for Perl.

        And playing devil's advocate for a second, what is the difference between adding one up stream module, and adding 12 that install relatively cleanly (both according to deps.cpantesters.com have a > 90% chance of installing clean on 5.10.0)? In both cas

        • Modules you install for yourself are necessary and sufficient and good examples of code reuse.

          Modules your dependencies install for you are bloat.

          I'm not sure what happens if modules your dependencies need are modules 1) you already have installed for yourself or 2) modules you've written and distributed, but it's a good first approximation of a definition.

          • Personally, I take a couple of things into account when I decide whether or not extra modules constitute "bloat".

            First, how likely are these modules to fail to install on the target platform(s)? If they are going to make my code harder for the sysadmin (often myself) to move, port, and maintain in the future they may not be worth pulling in to my dependency chain.

            Second, how does this module perform given how I will be using it in my code? How does it perform compared to it's alternatives?

            Third, do I need a

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