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  • ...and then there's polls.

    I'd like it if someone would post, verbatum, what it was we voted on that day. I remember it being worded very, very, very weakly. Something along the lines of "Do you think we should investigate developing a Perl certification?" ie. something you really couldn't vote against. It certainly wasn't a strong message for certification and I don't like seeing it spun that way.
    • During and after OSCON, I asked Damian and others about the details of the vote, to check my recollections, and they agreed with me that the first question was "How many are against the development of a certification program", and the second, "How many are for the development of a certification program". (Damian asked the questions.) And given the context of the preceding discussion, it would have been clear that we were talking about the Perl community developing the program.

      All the panelists (along with


      Dr. Tim Maher
      CEO, Consultix
      Perl and UNIX Training []
      • Well, I was one of the folks who raised hands to the "for" question, but my diary notes that the question was:

        "How many of you are for continued discussion, and possible development, of a certification program by the Perl community?"

        and I also remarked that it's hardly possible to vote against such a wording. Again, my comprehension ability for spoken English may be at fault, but I remember several people who expressed similar sentiments about the wording.

        • Hi Autrijus, thanks for your contribution. I remember you were sitting in the front row, in the aisle seat, and taking lots of notes.

          As I indicated, I was unsure of the exact wording myself, which is why I asked others about their recollections. Anyway, I didn't remember it* quite the way your notes have it, but I'm willing to accept your version (although it's just occurred to me that Nat video-taped the whole session, so we could potentially find out for sure from an examination of that record).



          Dr. Tim Maher
          CEO, Consultix
          Perl and UNIX Training []
          • So we can still conclude that most people are either still open to the idea of certification, or already in favor of it.

            No, we can't.

            First, I refute your assumption that the ~200 people in the room were a representative sample. The attendance at OSCon represents a small fraction of the community. Some would say an insignificant and completely unrepresentative fraction of the Perl community. And 200 attendees for one talk represents a minority of the attendees at OSCon. It means that there were 20

            • I'm shocked that you would defame me in a public forum, but just to show what a reasonable guy I am, I will nonetheless address the issues you've raised.

              1) You have no better insight into the demographics of the 200 people who attended the TPC Panel Discussion than I do. So my guess is as good as yours, and we may both still be wrong.

              2) I've always taken care to seek additional input regarding my impressions of what happened at the conference from others who were present, and I've always done my best t


              Dr. Tim Maher
              CEO, Consultix
              Perl and UNIX Training []
              • I'm shocked that you would defame me in a public forum [...]

                No, I am calling you accountable for the misleading statements you have made repeatedly about the "vote" certification panel at OSCon. Apparently, you agree that your representations may have been less than forthright:

                [I]f indeed I've mischaracterized the results of the vote, as seems likely given the recent clarification of the questions, I'm truly sorry.

                On the issue of the panelists:

                [W]e were a group of 5, and 2 were pro, and the o

                • Ziggy,

                  You keep alluding to a presumed preponderance of negative comments on this board as evidence that Certification isn't as palatable to JAPHs as the OSCON vote suggests, but you need to take a closer look at the data.

                  By my reckoning, only 14 of the many millions of software professionals within easy reach of a keyboard have seen fit to weigh in on this topic.

                  And of these, only Ziggy, foy, and merlyn have come down in opposition to certification. Jacques, RobertX, yumpy, gabor, and chromatic seem


                  Dr. Tim Maher
                  CEO, Consultix
                  Perl and UNIX Training []
                  • That's 3 against, 5 for, and 6 undecided. Hardly the compelling evidence you seem to think it is for the idea being unpopular. In contrast, of 200 people who cared enough to show up at the TPC Panel Discussion, 7 were against the idea, and 100 undecided or in favor or it, according to our latest theory of what the questions actually signified.

                    I am quite certain that there are a number of others, such as myself, who are simply watching this discussion with interest, rathering than inflaming with the discussion further with posts furthering one side of the argument or the other. The lack of comments in this thread doesn't indicate apathy on the part of myself or others.