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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • I think that summary of the author's point is this:

    "If white people find this restriction on their vocabulary unreasonable they need only bring forward the day when racism is eradicated - a day all black people look forward to - after which they can say what they like."

    I think for white people to not respect the fact that black people don't like to hear white people say it is just fucked up. Just because a black person says something or acts in a certain way does _not_ mean that it's okay for a white p
    • I understood his argument, but I found it fundamentally irrational, or at least irrationally expressed. It was not "the word is bad because..." but instead "this upsets us (or really, some of us), although you wouldn't really understand it".

      Moreover, it's founded on a basically flawed theory of meaning -- the idea that you get to judge words based not on their intended meaning (because that would really be "context"), but on however listeners or passersby want to willfully misconstrue [uiowa.edu] them.

      I run into a s

      • That's all very nice but...

        As a white person its not really your position to be telling black people what they can or cannot be upset over.

        Honestly, it sounds irrational to me too, but I suspect that this comes from the racism of being white. More importantly, I realize that if I made the argument you're making, black people would interpret it as racism. At which point you'd say something about how irrational that is. Except the fact is, that given the average black person's experience, assuming raci
        • As a white person its not really your position to be telling black people what they can or cannot be upset over.

          Then I say the converse is necessarily true: it is not a black person's position, as a black person, to be telling white people what words they can or cannot use.

          I personally don't think anyone has any business telling people what words they can or cannot use, or what they should or should not be upset about, and further that this never has one damned thing to do with color.

          Honestly, it sou

          • Speak for yourself. I am not racist in the slightest.

            It is simply not possible to be white and not be racist. You have enjoyed white privilege your entire life, at the expense of people of color. That is racist.

            Now as to how I'd define white privilige [whiteprivilege.com], just follow [utexas.edu] the [dickshovel.com] links [disciples.org].

            I doubt you could honestly tell me that you haven't experienced those privileges. If you have. but maybe you've never noticed them, that's a privilege too.

            That is the heart of racism. Its not about whether you think black peo
            • It is simply not possible to be white and not be racist.

              Only insofar as it is not possible to be human and not be racist.

              You have enjoyed white privilege your entire life, at the expense of people of color.

              No, I have not.

              I doubt you could honestly tell me that you haven't experienced those privileges. If you have. but maybe you've never noticed them, that's a privilege too.

              I refuse to bow to your desire to use the word "privilege" to mean "normalcy." Please use words properly. Yes, I know

              • >> You have enjoyed white privilege your entire life, at the expense of people of color.

                > No, I have not.

                Yes, you have.

                People of color are less able to compete with white people for things like quality education (starting with elementary), college admissions, jobs, housing, loans, etc.

                That's not to mention the fact that if you get arrested you're more likely to get a light sentence (no jail), you're less likely to get arrested in the first place, you're less likely to be beaten by a police
                • by pudge (1) on 2002.01.09 16:21 (#2951) Homepage Journal
                  People of color are less able to compete with white people for things like quality education (starting with elementary), college admissions, jobs, housing, loans, etc.

                  I do not compete with anyone for any of these things. Education? It was public, open to everyone who lived there. College? Nearly everyone got in to my college, and I would have had a better chance if I were not white. Job? Probably no difference, but if there were, it would be easier if I weren't white. Housing? I was the only one to put a bid on this house, and there were plenty similar houses available to all comers. Loans? Perhaps somewhat competitive, but anyone can get the simple loans (car and house) that I have, with the financial record I have.

                  That's not to mention the fact that if you get arrested you're more likely to get a light sentence (no jail), you're less likely to get arrested in the first place, you're less likely to be beaten by a police officer, less likely to be shot by one.

                  Again, these are not of the first category (ways my life is better because of racism) but of the second (ways some peoples' lives are worse because of racism).

                  Its only "normal" because you're white!

                  It is how *everyone* *should* be treated. It is not Privilege, it is Right. The way others are treated sometimes is Wrong. It is not Privileged and Not Privileged, it is Right and Wrong. "Normal" was not a good word, OK; I meant it more as what normal should be, rather than what normal is. It is not "privilege" for me to walk down the street and not have people suspect me as a thief. That is how it *should* be for *everyone*. It is Right that I am treated that way, not Privilege, and Wrong that in some cases colored people are not treated that way.

                  Ok, so its not easier but its not harder. But relative to a person of color, your life is easier, right?

                  Not to Tiger Woods, no. Not to the millions of millionaires of color in this nation, no. Not to the millions of people of color who may not be rich, but who are very content being who they are and where they are, no matter how life has beaten them down. At best, my life is no easier than theirs. The answer is No. To *some* people of color, is my life easier? Yes. But there are more white people who would think my life is easier than colored people!

                  inasmuch as less people of color are inhibited from competing for limited resources that are universally wanted, white people have an advantage in terms of getting them.

                  I may have certain advantages in getting what I want, but it is not because of race, it is not because there are fewer people in the pool. If I can't get something, then I don't want it, and I get something else. It is not a competition, and I don't want what I can't have. So I never have any trouble getting anything I want.

                  The fact that this country is fabulously wealthy comes at least in part from the theft of Native land, the exploitation of slave labor, etc. And you benefit from that.

                  Well, if you want to go there, descendants of blacks in America who were taken as slaves are much better off than they would be if they had been left in Africa ... so they benefit too. Of course, the slaves didn't kill the Indians. But neither did I.

                  Nor did you have trouble finding positive representations of white people in the media.

                  Poppycock! I *still* have trouble finding positive representations of white people, or any people, in the media.

                  This isn't about being an "outcast". I don't really give a flying *beep* about your difficult time in high school (been there, done that myself). That's a far cry from institutional racism that limits your opportunities for the rest of your life.

                  No, it is not. Because most people of color are *not* so limited. And those that are, are limited because of how they grow up, not because people subjugate them all along the way as they try to make their own lives. The point I was making, which you missed or ignored, is that what I experienced *is* worse than most of the "people of color" I know have experienced. The black kids I went to school with were popular, they were not victims of racism, their parents were wealthy ... they had all the opportunities I had and more. Again, Tiger Woods is not "limited."

                  I keep mentioning him because he makes your whole argument tumble. You keep saying "people of color" and "black people" as if they are all one group. They aren't. And you know what? Neither are white people. Most black people are not in poverty, are not significantly fettered by racism from being whom they want to be and doing what they want to do. More white people are limited from doing what they want to do than any other racial group in the U.S., in raw numbers. More white people have poor access to education, loans, jobs than any other group. That's not to say there is not a problem with the situation of "black America," and one that society is largely responsible for. But it is to say that the issue is not white vs. people of color. We are all in one big messed-up pot, and we all need to work to get out of it, and blaming people and segregating them and generally being pissy isn't helping anything.

                  The single biggest problem in getting to be whom you want to be is your education and economic background, regardless of your color.

                  Perhaps you have some books/articles representing a contrary viewpoint you'd like to recommend.

                  I don't feel the need to read any more books or articles on the subject. If you'd like, check out Alan Keyes: The Strength and Betrayal of Black America [amazon.com].

                  You want to put people in a box, to blame people, to subjugate people by thinking they what they have is fine, that to be treated well is "extra" and not "right". I want to lift people out of their boxes, whatever they are, and I want everyone to see everyone else as fellow people on this big ball of dirt who are carefully and wonderfully made. I want everyone to have opportunity to do and have whatever they want. And your way just makes that harder, because you're segregating people, you're blaming people who are trying to help; you're inciting people to hate and to anger against their brothers and sisters in humanity, brothers and sisters who are not the problem in the first place.