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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • and now your tax money that pays for the decaying public schools will be siphoned off by the school voucher [cnn.com] plan so you can either have religion in the public schools or you can watch the public schools decay at an even faster rate while people who are rich enough to send their kids to parochial schools can get a break. I suppose the 17% of kids who don't finish high school are less important than religion. Move back to NZ and just keep hoping biotech will find the religion gene and remove it from the genep

    • Fact: schooling of children is a mandate by the government. If the public schools are too bad for the children attend, then schooling of children becomes an unfunded mandate by the government on the parents. It is an obligation of the government to provide parents the funds to fulfill their legal requirement of providing education for their students.
      • It is a mandate for "public" schooling. If they start cutting checks to people for sending their kids to parochial schools then us non-breeders should be able to opt-out of paying property taxes since I have no kids and don't wish to pay for religious education. The public schools will not benefit from this and the next step would be to abolish public education altogether and just make people pay for their own education like college/university. Your desire for religious education for your children is not my

        • The government decides everyone must be schooled, so it is obliged to pay for that, and to say that public school is the only way this should be achieved is nonsense, because public schools simply are not an option sometimes. This isn't about religious schools in many cases -- to frame it otherwise is dishonest -- and even when it is, it would be unconstitutional to not pay for it just because it is religious. That is specifically prohibited by the First Amendment in regard establishments of religion. To
          • In the pilot program over 80% of the beneficiaries were catholic schools. Why should I be obligated to pay for the middle class to siphon money away from the already hurting public schools so that they can buy an SUV on the money my tax dollars helped them save on their kids school tuition? The government provides for a public education and that is all the constitution provides for so if a public school isn't 'an option' for you then you'll just have to cough up the cash like my parents and others have done

            • In the pilot program over 80% of the beneficiaries were catholic schools

              So 20% weren't. I am just saying you cannot frame this as an issue only for religious instruction, because it is not.

              Why should I be obligated to pay for the middle class to siphon money away from the already hurting public schools

              Because you -- the American people -- have mandated that these children must be schooled, so you must provide the means for them to be schooled. And again, saying the public schools are the only means
              • You still haven't answered why I should help you pay for an alternate school without providing a reason why it should be federally mandated, why my money should fund religious schooling of any kind or what exactly it is about public education that is unsuitable and how abandoning it is a solution for all the people. One dollar of my tax dollars paying for religious schooling of any kind is too much. The libertarians seem to think that public schooling is too governmentally controlled yet want my federal and

                • I have already clearly addressed pretty much everything you ask; that you don't see it is evidence that to reiterate it would be unhelpful.

                  As to your final point: I do feel that a high school diploma is unnecessary for many people, of course. You don't need a high school diploma for most jobs. I never said you don't need an education to succeed, I said you don't need a high school diploma; those are two vastly different things.

                  On the other hand, the standards of high school are a lot lower than they use
                  • "high school diploma is unnecessary for many people because you don't need it for most jobs" and "getting a diploma doesn't mean much since many who graduate are functionally illiterate". Oookay. In other words, schooling is required only for jobs, not for your everyday life?

                    It's fine that most of the people can't read or write, or do basic maths properly? It's fine if most people don't know enough (even) their own language, math, sciences, history, geography, economics, so that the people in power (tak
                    • I perhaps unclearly am drawing a distinction between schooling and education. I probably would have skipped college altogether were it not for the need to have a college diploma to get most decent jobs. That's not to say I squandered the opportunity, because I made the most of it; but I didn't, and don't, see the need for it. I would have become more educated regardless.

                      As to it being OK that most people not being able to do basic math, language skills, etc.: heavens no! I am saying that a high school
                    • You still have not answered why my tax dollars should go to your own self-serving ideas of education instead of towards improving the system that already is in need of serious help that would help all children instead of just yours.

                      A good education is one of if not the pillar of a democracy and considering that it is no wonder this country is no longer a well informed democracy. We are the richest 3rd world nation on the planet.

                    • You still have not answered why my tax dollars should go to your own self-serving ideas of education instead of towards improving the system that already is in need of serious help that would help all children instead of just yours.

                      Yes, I did.
                    • The government requires schooling (mandate). Beyond that, which I didn't mention, the government promises schooling. Sometimes the provided schooling is unacceptable, and often the reasons why have nothing to do with religion, but they are because the schools themselves are bad, such as is the case with many inner city schools. In such a case, the government has an obligation -- legal and moral -- to provide alternative schooling options.

                      Simply saying that the money should go to improving the schools is