Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments
NOTE: use Perl; is on undef hiatus. You can read content, but you can't post it. More info will be forthcoming forthcomingly.

All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More | Login | Reply
Loading... please wait.
  • The source code for the site is available. Commit access is easy to get. If you have a better design, nothing stands in the way of your improvements.

    • About ten years of lost progress stand in the way of improvements. Need I list the number of programming languages that came and went in that time?

      Thankfully I am not paying for any of the group developing perl 6, I would be pretty annoyed if that were the case.

      I can fix the webpage, sure. I cannot, however, fix the last 10 years of perl 6 debacle.

      • I cannot, however, fix the last 10 years of perl 6 debacle.

        So do you have anything useful to say, or are you just saying "GODDAMN THAT SUCKS WAH WAH WAH YOU ALL ARE DOODOOHEADS FOR WORKING ON IT," because really that's about all I'm seeing.

        --

        --
        xoa

        • Let me spell it out for you: drop this insane perl 6 thing immediately. Give us good, stable threading in perl 5 instead of self-hosting grammars in perl 6. Et cetera. We are your user base. Or used to be... - ank
          • drop this insane perl 6 thing immediately. Give us good, stable threading in perl 5 instead of self-hosting grammars in perl 6.

            See, now that's something we can address, if a bit obnoxious.

            Here's what you're missing: Perl 6 and "good stable threading in perl 5" are not mutually exclusive. It's not as if the people working on Perl 6 would necessarily working on your pet projects. Fact is, Perl 6 is not at all a distraction from Perl 5. If anything, it's feeding Perl 5.

            If you want improved threading i

            --

            --
            xoa

            • Let me insist: trying to build Perl 6 is less useful to real, practical perl than actually working on Perl 5. If you think proper OO syntax, multithreading, better speed, etc are "pet projects" of mine, then we really have nothing more to discuss, since I believe those are major issues in perl 5 that should have priority over perl 6 work. You can't expect me to believe that the perl 6 team can't work on that.

              Also, I think the point which is lost is that the users aren't clamoring for a "lexically overridea

              • Let me insist: trying to build Perl 6 is less useful to real, practical perl than actually working on Perl 5.

                Let me write that more correctly for you:

                trying to build Perl 6 is less useful to me than actually working on Perl 5.

                Everyone's got different itches to scratch. It's all a matter of who's doing the scratching.

                You can't expect me to believe that the perl 6 team can't work on that.

                I don't think that you understand how open source projects work.

                People are not assigned to work on certain pro

                --

                --
                xoa

                • Rewrite all you want, that doesn't make it true.

                  • You're stating your opinion. Opinions are neither true nor false. You find X to be more important than Y. Others disagree. That's how it goes.

                    The tragedy here is that you're trying to convince people to work on your concerns by bashing the work of others. I can guarantee you it won't work.

                    --

                    --
                    xoa

                    • If there's anything I really want or need, I can work on it, or start my own project. All I'm trying to do is send a message, after many years of contemplation. Again, I am not alone, and the issues I mentioned are real and don't affect just myself.

                      I know it's hard to accept, but since the RFCs, perl 6 has pretty much been a lost cause. Also, I don't value someone's work just because someone sweats or holds weekly meetings. There's only three things I care for: delivery, delivery, delivery.

                      You have lost t

                    • If anything, I'm a bit too blunt, but that's the way I am.

                      How's that workin' out for you, as far as bringing people around to your way of thinking?

                      --

                      --
                      xoa

                    • Oh, I see what you did there - ignored the whole point. Well done!
                    • Again, I am not alone, and the issues I mentioned are real and don't affect just myself.

                      And the people you are talking to don't care. They have their goals set. They are not interested in your goals. Period.

                      Also, I don't value someone's work just because someone sweats or holds weekly meetings.

                      Noone expects you to. You are not their userbase.

                      --
                      J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
                    • No, I'm not part of the problem. I'm just some guy. I have no obligation at all to fix the Perl community or to make it work how you want, and I'm probably unqualified to do so. I'm as much a "part of the problem" as my three year old son is. I am completely uninvolved, other than commenting on this web forum. I'm just trying to assist you in clarifying what the people you are talking to in thinking. If you don't like my assistance, you can have a complete refund. :)

                      --
                      J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
                    • And the people you are talking to don't care. They have their goals set. They are not interested in your goals. Period.

                      Don't read more into this than what it says. I didn't say these people SHOULD be this way. I said they ARE this way.

                      If you want to read more into that, then you're the problem, I think.

                      --
                      J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
                  • You seem to be postulating an objective standard for something that is completely subjective.

                    --
                    J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
              • ...since I believe those are major issues in perl 5 that should have priority over perl 6 work. You can't expect me to believe that the perl 6 team can't work on that.

                You seem to be operating from an assumption that most of us working on Perl 6 would instead be spending our time and energy on Perl 5 if Perl 6 didn't exist. The question is not whether we can work on Perl 5 major issues, the question is whether we'd be motivated to do so.

                I know that this assumption is not true in my case -- if I wasn't wo

          • Let me spell it out for you: drop this insane perl 6 thing immediately. Give us good, stable threading in perl 5 instead of self-hosting grammars in perl 6. Et cetera.

            Halting Perl 6 development today will not cause stable threading in Perl 5 to appear sooner than it otherwise would. Neither "stable threading in perl 5" nor the other features you've mentioned are blocked because of Perl 6 development. As far as I know, none of the existing Perl 6 developers are at all interested in working on these featu

            • Well, if I can help... I've given this issue some thought in the past and can put together a wishlist of what *I* think would be useful. Of course, it's just my opinion, but stealing from a few other langs.

              If that sounds good, where do you want me to send the info? - ank

              • Well, if I can help... I've given this issue some thought in the past and can put together a wishlist of what *I* think would be useful.

                Oh, that would be terrific! The ideal place for such ideas would be on the perl6-language mailing list. I will be honest up front that sometimes discussions and threads on that list quickly become bikesheds and messages get initially warnocked, but all of the thoughts and ideas that enter that list do get noticed and consideration from the core design team. Not everyth

                  • I have reconsidered, after reading where the logo came from, and how only a person or two gave the idea of getting professional help a second thought.

                    The discussion on the list is not the sum-total of all discussions on the topic -- it has also been discussed on IRC. Several more than two of us have floated the idea of using a professional designer -- we just didn't use the mailing list to suggest or discuss it.

                    And fwiw, I did get a professional designer to come up with the temporary logo for Rakudo.

                    Pm

                  • By which, do you mean the part about larry suggesting it feminizes Perl?

                    ... I also take it as a given that we want to discourage misogyny in our community. You of the masculine persuasion should consider it an opportunity to show off your sensitive side. :)

                    I remain in utter awe of the whole thing....have the entire lot of folks gone off their meds or something? Women who survive in this business will not be seduced into thinking a language with a feminine butterfly must be a lot less full of assholes tha

                    • Well, I don't know that professionalism or a well-formed plan is always so needed, especially in the original spirit of opensource but, to anyone who thought P6 was, or has become, a joke by way of 8 years of design will not be dissuaded from that position by that site. It might even persuade many others who were merely neutral into thinking the language has reached it's comic endpoint.

                      And no, a man who can't confront the people who make perl an unfriendly misogynistic place will not get a pass with a fluff

                    • i'm more likely to create my own thing or contribute to another programming language

                      Cool. Then you'd get what you want, right? That would be great for all concerned, wouldn't it?

                      --
                      J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
          • This is carried on over at http://perlbuzz.com/2009/08/perl-6-development-does-not-detract-from-perl-5.html [perlbuzz.com]. It should help explain some of the misunderstandings.
            --

            --
            xoa

              • I didn't say "infinite" I said "unbounded." You have a scarcity point of view, and I see the world as abundance.

                You're ignoring the three points of the post, and carrying on the idea that if only Perl 6 didn't exist, you would have what you want in Perl 5. There is simply no reason to believe that.

                What I see here is someone who's just very angry, and that anger is all you can bring to the table. Rather than understand and accept the help from numerous people (me, Patrick Michaud, etc) who have tr

                --

                --
                xoa