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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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Video and Audio recordings from YAPC::Asia 2007 12 Comments More | Login | Reply /

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  • I no longer buy into the 'we will release when it's ready' perspective. At some point, it's just wanking--by the time you decide it's ready, Python, Ruby, and probably some feverish dream will have made Perl a language of the past. The preponderance of Linux has made bash, awk, and sed more attractive--and very stable. Combining those languages into an as yet undefined Perl6 is *not* a winning combination. Particularly as the CPAN which Perl mongers seem so proud of is a largely uncontrolled mess--there is

    • Any piece of crap seems able to make it into the CPAN.

      That’s why CPAN has succeeded and all other repositories to date either failed outright or stuck around but flounder.

      When you meander, and want trivial bucks vice doing it for love, you are dead, dead, dead. Show me the code. Something stable, that I can program against.

      Do you know how little manpower actually is behind the whole thing? Everyone wants it now, but people actually doing something about getting it now are a damn sight rarer.

      • I use the CPAN. Some of it is *great*. Some of it is more or less vital, for some of the things I do. As in not always having OS-native tools for things like current cryptographic hashes. Linux md5sum and sha1sum do not always satisfy the need. But in too many cases, you have to do to much legwork researching overall quality, and it's easier to just write what you need, and get an internal code review organized.

        "Do you know how little manpower actually is behind the whole thing?"

        That explains the *problem*,

        • I don't get it. Why are the minimal systems that include Python going to jump up and suddenly include Perl 6 when it comes out, which is a completely different language from Perl 5?

          And why the urgent need to, if your code is in Perl 5, migrate it to Perl 6, which is a completely different language? Or, if you are developing new code, why the need to do it in Perl 6 instead of Perl 5?

          You've got to do "stuff" in fairly short order. What? You have code you're considering migrating to Python or C. You

          --
          J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers

          • Re:we need it now (Score:1)

            by gregm (7207) on 2007.04.28 18:21 (#54730)
            "I suspect you're doing so intentionally in order to come up with this artificial urgency so you can troll Perl in general because Perl 6 isn't here." Not the case. I'm faced with a couple of cases where companies are choosing between LAMP (Perl) and Java/Python (leaning more toward Java, after calling around, catching people at home on a Saturday), and have some anecdotal evidence from people I trust, that it's not just me. The issue is that managers aren't seeing Perl 5 & 6 as separate languages. In terms of high level languages, they are seeing things in blanket terms of Perl, Python, Java, or Ruby, and versions need not apply. Granted, this is a limited sample, but the signal is very strong. I don't know what management rags they may be reading, but I do know that a lot of what I do will be handed down by edict. It doesn't have to make sense, and there's nothing in particular that I can do about it. Arguing in mgmnt meetings just gets me brushed off and/or sniped at from the Java guys, in a couple of cases that are fairly important. That's about as pleasant as you'd imagine it to be. Not at all. Sorry you suspect me of being a troll. But situations differ, and I'm not at liberty to completely describe mine. I've been as up front as I can. It will have to do, and if it wasn't enough, well, it wasn't enough. It was still the best I could do.

            • You get paid to deal with your clueless management. The Perl 6 community does not. If your management isn't interested in being technically astute enough to figure out that Perl 5 is a well-supported language with a well-supported future, your company deserves what it gets for having them.

              --
              J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
              • OK, I can see where that viewpoint comes from, and it's difficult to argue against it.

                My original post seems to have generated more heat than light--accusations of trolling, insults, etc. But if you check out the entire thread, I at least offered to pitch in with some doc writing or testing. I really don't care for writing doc, spare time is limited, etc. I could apply all the usual excuses.

                But the offer *was* on the table. Your reply was, in essence, "You have a problem, not us. Deal with it on your own."

                • Your reply was, in essence, "You have a problem, not us. Deal with it on your own."

                  Actually, that was other people's reply. My reply was essentially, "I can't see why you have a problem."

                  There's a great community-builder.

                  To be honest, I'm not much interested in the Perl 6 community right now. I played that game when it first came out. I received no benefit, and I think the community benefited even less from my participation. So I stopped. Other people can work on building it, if they care. If it gets good, I may join at some point. For right now, I'm a Fiver.

                  It's difficult to see how this discussion has added anything I could take to (admittedly lame) IT mgmnt as a positive.

                  How about "Perl 5 is a viable project with suppor

                  --
                  J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers

                • So you've successfully taken out the non-language-implementer trash.

                  My concern is merely in promoting the view that non-contributors do not have the right to complain about the schedule.

                  • Checked this as my week is at an end, unless I get called in the middle of the night. Which I probably will--but that's nothing to do with Perl. Just venting about a long FUBAR (in the acronym sense, so caps) week.

                    "My concern is merely in promoting the view that non-contributors do not have the right to complain about the schedule."

                    No argument whatsoever. In the final analysis, intentions and concerns, and whining that 'contributing is hard' don't matter. The only thing that *does* matter is what you've act

                    • As someone who already feels as if they've brought more heat than light to the discussion, I have to STFU, and wish you all the best possible future.

                      Thank you!

                      If you do have time to participate in whatever fashion, we would love to have you. I have two projects to complete in the next fortnight, but once that is done I'll revise the Parrot getting started guide, in the hope that the next people who wander by with an hour or two will be able to make much better progress.

                    • That would be most welcome, hopefully to many people, if you can manage it. I've had very little luck in predicting my schedule beyond two or three days. Good on you, if you can manage it.

                      I bagged daily updates via email, as there was too much flamage (that has a personal impact, believe it or not), and I still have to get on with porting a fair amount of systems software. That is teh sux0r, but I'm stuck. It's a managerial edict thing, and Friday has not been a Good Day. No, it's not the Perl community's p
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