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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • “The soviet union’s atheist regime killed 20 million”

    That just takes the cake – the irony is killing me. The Nazi regime had the Vatican’s full blessing, y’know? And what about the inquisition? The crusades? Talk about living in the glass house and throwing stones.

    I’m sorry, but wasn’t the earth created about 6000 years ago according the bible?

    No, it wasn’t.

    The funny thing about your question is, though, that most “religious” peopl

    • “The soviet union’s atheist regime killed 20 million”

      That just takes the cake – the irony is killing me. The Nazi regime had the Vatican’s full blessing, y’know?

      Well ... no. It didn't. The Vatican did not give a full blessing. It played politics and tried to stay out of it, and you could call what it did appeasement, which I suppose you could awkwardly turn into a blessing of some kind, but it was not a "full" blessing, certainly.

      That said, as I mentioned to Matts, this argument is offered in response to the notion that Christians are bad (because of the Crusades etc.) and atheists are good. Dawkins spends pages going on about the Inquisition, and yet never ex

      • The only data-based stuff I've seen suggested that the higher the rate of secularism/atheism (important difference between the two, but I can't recall which one it was) the higher the commitment to christian values, statistically.

        That is, the stronger religious a country was, the less it followed religious morals.

        Or something like that.
        • by pudge (1) on 2007.04.12 13:50 (#54400) Homepage Journal

          The only data-based stuff I've seen suggested that the higher the rate of secularism/atheism (important difference between the two, but I can't recall which one it was) the higher the commitment to christian values, statistically.

          That is, the stronger religious a country was, the less it followed religious morals.

          Or something like that.
          I've seen such studies, and they do not even attempt to control for other factors. For example -- and I know this does not hold true across the spectrum of nations, it is just an example -- perhaps a "Christian nation" like America allows more freedom than an "atheist nation" like China, and thus has more social problems like murder and abortion. Does that mean America is worse than China, or that its Christian values (in this case, freedom) have more negative results than those of its atheist counterpart? Some people in China certainly think so, but I'd disagree, as would most people in the West, who believe in freedom (regardless of their religious views).

          Again, this is just one example. Another may be that America has gun rights built in to its Constitution and therefore we have more gun violence, but that a. is not necessarily a bad thing (e.g. a few more people die, but tyranny is averted) and b. does not necessarily reflect directly on anything to do with religion (at least, no moreso than any other expression of liberty).

          And how does one even define Christian morals? Some people claim a government committment to the poor is a Christian value, but I could not disagree more: government charity, while in some cases more effective in curtailing the actual problem of poverty, is a poor substitute for the Christian value of individual charity, and comparing the results and saying whether one stacks up better to "Christian values" is, at best, like comparing apples and oranges.

          Etc.