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• comparisons (Score:1)

  by mary.poppins (3530)

  I don't know much about Clinton, so I won't say anything about that. Certainly
  my default reaction is suspicion of anyone in any sort of position of authority.
  Of course, that typically applies to his detractors as much as to him.
  
  If you're looking into comparisons, you might also be interested in looking up
  the Carlyle Group. The most egregious bit of that that I've heard about is the
  United Defense pump-and-dump.
  
  
  • Re:comparisons (Score:2)

    by djberg96 (2603)

    "If you're looking into comparisons, you might also be interested in looking up the Carlyle Group."

    Blech - more sickening corruption. This is why I'm voting for Nader this year. It's not even about Democrat or Republican, liberal or conservative any more. It's about corporate vs non-corporate.

    Maybe we need a revolution.
    • Re:comparisons (Score:1)

      by mary.poppins (3530)

      > Blech - more sickening corruption. This is why I'm voting for Nader this year.
      > It's not even about Democrat or Republican, liberal or conservative any more.
      > It's about corporate vs non-corporate.
      
      Unfortunately, given the structure of our society (a social-democratic
      capitalist republic), voting for self-proclaimed reformers is typically of
      limited utility. The problem is with the social structure, not just with the
      individuals in charge. Though it does appear to me that current batch of people
      in
      • Re:comparisons (Score:2)

        by pudge (1)

        We need a *particular type* of revolution. I think the organizing principle of society should be worker control.
        
        The problem is that less than 1 percent of the populace would agree with you about that. I'd be surprised if you could even get 1 percent of people on this site to agree with you. We fought major wars to defeat communism, and we're still, as a people, as against it as ever.
        
        • Re:comparisons (Score:1)

          by mary.poppins (3530) on 2004.06.25 17:13 (#31888) Homepage Journal

          > The problem is that less than 1 percent of the populace
          > would agree with you about that. I'd be surprised if you
          > could even get 1 percent of people on this site to agree
          > with you. We fought major wars to defeat communism, and
          > we're still, as a people, as against it as ever.
          
          The Leninist dictatorship-of-the-party is a far cry from
          anarchist societies that people have actually created on
          the ground. I hope you'll take the time to read a bit about
          what the anarchists achieved in Spain [struggle.ws].
          
          The Communist Party is not the only alternative to
          capitalism. Mistaking an anarchist for an advocate of state
          control is a pretty big error. The modern US Republican
          Party is a lot closer.
          

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          • Re:comparisons (Score:2)

            by pudge (1)

            I hope you'll take the time to read about how every worker-run nation has failed in short order, unless kept in control by force.
            
            Mistaking an anarchist for an advocate of state control is a pretty big error. The modern US Republican Party is a lot closer [to communism].
            
            I hope you say that when you try to convince people of revolution, because it will succeed in nothing but making people realize how wacky your ideas are.
            • Re:comparisons (Score:1)

              by mary.poppins (3530)

              Try looking at things along the authoritarian / libertarian
              axis. The current US administration seems very
              authoritarian to me. I imagine you have heard about the
              "confidential" memo in which the Justice Dept. asserted that
              the President has the right to set aside US law during
              wartime?
              
              Combine that with their plan for never-ending war, and I
              think that's pretty authoritarian. And in the end, not that
              different from the current regime in China.
              
              • Re:comparisons (Score:2)

                by pudge (1)

                Try looking at things along the authoritarian / libertarian axis.
                
                Try imagining that I have long ago moved well beyond such banal exercises.
                
                I imagine you have heard about the "confidential" memo in which the Justice Dept. asserted that the President has the right to set aside US law during wartime?
                
                Well, he does. He has authority to do whatever he wishes in an emergency situation, including wartime. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus. The question is not whether he has the right or authority, which he d
                • Re:comparisons (Score:1)

                  by mary.poppins (3530)

                  > You see, since the torture first came out, people have
                  > been trying to blame Bush for it.
                  
                  Whereas, you accept the official story?
                  
                      * It was only a single unit that tortured people
                      * That this unit did so of their own accord, without any
                            such order from their superiors
                      * The one time this happened, they took lots of pictures,
                            and these pictures were widely circulated
                  
                  What of the Red Cros
                  • Re:comparisons (Score:2)

                    by pudge (1)

                    Whereas, you accept the official story?
                    
                    No. I am, instead, being reasonable: due to lack of evidence supporting any explanation in particular, I am withholding judgment.
                    
                • more bad apples (Score:1)

                  by mary.poppins (3530)

                  "Reversing itself, the Army said Tuesday that a G.I. was discharged partly because of a head injury he suffered while posing as an uncooperative detainee during a training exercise at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba." [nytimes.com]