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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • I can't tell you how many times I have told people we are not a "democracy" but a "republic". *sigh*
    • And in reading the Web site, I see that they raise this piont, too. In fact, it's the entire point of the site, so your comment is particularly ill-placed. They do attempt to address my question and raise some interesting points, but much of the site is a collection of lies and half-truths. Much of it's pretty offensive.

      And to be clear: I do think the distinction between democracy and republic is important, but most of the time people issue that correction, it seems irrelevant to the topic at hand. T

      • Much of it's pretty offensive.

        Huh? I can understand disagreeing with the content, but being offended by it? What, exactly, offended you? Sounds to me like you get offended too easily.

        I'm regularly subjected to content I disagree with, and I believe I benefit from the exposure. You generally have to try hard to offend me.

        --
        J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
        • by Ovid (2709) on 2005.05.16 13:25 (#40440) Homepage Journal

          I found the writing offensive because I find lies that promote bigotry and intolerance to be offensive. For example, their argument against multiculturalism is that if the concept was valid "there wouldn’t be such a tremendous number of people worldwide wanting to take up residency in the United States..." This "rebuttal" to multiculturalism is typical of people who pervert the argument, whether knowingly or not. Many of the people trying to get over to the United States are doing so for money or to escape violence. Having a fat wallet and a relatively peaceful society is only a small, small part of a culture. There are problems associated with multiculturalism, but "we're right and you're wrong" is not one of them.

          The author further goes on to write:

          But no—people aren’t flocking to Mexico, to India, or to any of the Islamo-Facist nations of the Middle East, and in fact precisely the opposite is happening ... Because Western culture ... is still correctly perceived to offer greater liberty and opportunity than most any other place on earth.

          I just point that out to make clear that I'm not taking the author's words out of context. Taking two positive facets of our society and putting them forward as a justification for most of our culture is stupid. Naturally, I wasn't surprised when I discovered the author further went on to call for limiting immigration.

          And let's consider the author's take on freedom of religion:

          The concept of freedom from religion has emerged in recent decades to turn the 1st Amendment on its head, all but outlawing Christianity and rendering the biblical Christian worldview illegal “hate” speech for adhering to a set of immutable moral standards and postulating absolute truth.

          Outlawing Christianity? Calling the worldview "illegal hate speech?" This is the sort of propoganda the religious right peddles in an attempt to scare people. It's ridiculous. No one's calling for outlawing Christianity or labeling the Christian worldview "illegal hate speech" (though Christianity is sometimes used as a justification of thinly veiled hate speech, the objection is to hate speech, not Christianity, but I doubt our author would be bright enough to realize that.) Government should stay out of religion. It should neither endorse it nor suppress it. Money shouldn't be spent on those things. You want a nativity scene? Have you or your church put one up. Don't spend my tax dollars on it. You want prayer in school? Send your kids to a private school. Don't spend my tax dollars on it. And why are we spending my tax dollars on House and Senate Chaplains [c-span.org]? If people want religion, why are they demanding the government fund it? It's a waste of my money.

          What's frustrating in reading through this site is that the author raises valid points, but when I get to the author's recommended articles [democracyi...reedom.com] page, the truth starts to become clear. Many of those articles point to the Lew Rockwell site [lewrockwell.com]. This is an interesting bunch. Aside from following the Austrian School of Economics (which has flaws that I won't go into now because there's not enough room in the margin), they also like the idea of the South seceding from the union. I like that thought, too, frankly. I never met a nicer bunch of racists than those I grew up with in Texas. Let them have their little anti-immigration Christian nation down there and more power to 'em!

          • I found the writing offensive because I find lies that promote bigotry and intolerance to be offensive.

            Amazing. I still think I'm not bigotted or intolerant, despite having read the site. It can't be promoting bigotry or intolerance that well, then.

            I think perhaps you read more into the site than it actually said.

            their argument against multiculturalism

            I didn't see an argument against multiculturalism. I saw an argument against compulsory multiculturalism.

            Real multiculturalism is when you si

            --
            J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
            • I guess I could get "offended" that you've assumed you can associate me with racism simply because I believe people should have freedom, but I'm going to be bigger than that.

              I apologize. What I wrote apparently came out differently from what I intended. Having been born and mostly raised in Texas, I was horrified by the amount of racial and religious bigotry that I encountered there. That's not to say that everyone there is a bigot and I didn't mean to imply that, but I see how it can be read that way.

          • I didn't read the article, but when parts of the Bible put on a bumper sticker *are* prosecuted as hate speech in Canada, then it *is* scary.

            Granted, one could note that with the incident in question, the offender was, in the view of many, making a de facto threat against homosexuals (I don't recall the specific slogan, but it basically said something about gays being killed, and had a biblical reference to support it).

            However, just as many people cannot understand the distinction I just offfered, many ot
            • Well, atheism is certainly not a religion. Atheism rejects the idea that a civilisation, a century, or the whole humanity can be the center of the universe, because there is no such center. The very whole purpose of religion is to propose and build such a center, by a process which is psychotic in nature.
              • Well, atheism is certainly not a religion.

                No, it certainly is a religion.

                Atheism rejects the idea that a civilisation, a century, or the whole humanity can be the center of the universe, because there is no such center. The very whole purpose of religion is to propose and build such a center, by a process which is psychotic in nature.

                Your definition of religion is flawed. Defining it in terms of psychosis is nonsense, and many religions don't propose a center at all, such as Hinduism. Further, I can
                • Your misguided claim that atheism is scientifically unprovable shows that you don't understand it. But that's normal, since you're a theist. Please just stop to try to characterize something that's beyond you.
                  • Your misguided claim that atheism is scientifically unprovable shows that you don't understand it.

                    You cannot through science prove that God does not exist, which is what atheism claims.

                    Please just stop to try to characterize something that's beyond you.

                    rgs, what crawled up your ass? You completely mischaracterize Christianity, and then bitch to me about mischaracterizing atheism?

                    Of course, I didn't mischaracterize atheism. But even if I had, you have no right to sit on a high horse about it, after
                    • You cannot through science prove that God does not exist -- of course you can : history of religions, ethnology, anthropology, neurobiology, psychology, all give extremely powerful arguments.
                    • You cannot through science prove that God does not exist

                      of course you can : history of religions, ethnology, anthropology, neurobiology, psychology, all give extremely powerful arguments.

                      No, they do not. None of them give any arguments, whatsoever, of any kind, that point to the nonexistence of God. You're making stuff up.

                      I challenge you to present one, just one, argument that even begins to point to the nonexistence of God. As none exists, I expect no reply, but if you do reply, I shall have no
                    • I challenge you to present one, just one, argument that even begins to point to the nonexistence of God

                      I mean, of course, a scientific argument.

                      Hell, I'd like to even see an experiment postulated that could possibly, even if the test is not necessarily feasible, prove that God does not exist. That is to say: I am doubting that you can even come up with a theoretical method by which science could prove God does not exist. I've never seen one.
                    • Isn't there something about not being able to prove a negative?

                      I would say that atheism, in the context of the First Amendment, is a religion. In fact, a few years ago a case was decided against a teacher/school that didn't allow a child to do a book report on what a bible story turned into a children's book.

                      The decision boiled down to the state can't promote non-religion or anti-religion or however you want to look at it.

                      The state should be neutral regarding religion.
                  • Hey, cool it.

                    Regardless of how anyone feels about atheism, the fact in the context of this journal entry and this article is that each person is entitled to whatever beliefs he wants, right or wrong, faith-related or not. Part of pudge's point, which I believe you missed in your haste to apply corrective action, was that we cannot and should not legally distinguish between beliefs as being "religious" or "non-religious." You want to believe something and make choices and have whatever rational or irrati

                    --
                    J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
                    • we cannot and should not legally distinguish between beliefs as being "religious" or "non-religious." That's a very sane statement.

                      That said, understand also that's it's offensive for an atheist, who defines him/herself as out of any religious system, to be equated precisely to what he wants to evade. Just tell a GNU advocate that free software is just one special kind of commercial software, and you'll see how he responds. (Reformulated in software terms, it's now obvious that this was a troll. I must apol

                    • That said, understand also that's it's offensive for an atheist, who defines him/herself as out of any religious system, to be equated precisely to what he wants to evade.

                      Okay, but I think some people here keep getting offended too easily. I could get offended by the fact that you implied the cause of all religion is psychosis, but I'm going to be bigger than that. I could further be offended by the fact that you mistakenly identified the purpose of religion as being to propose a particular race or ce

                      --
                      J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
                    • understand also that's it's offensive for an atheist, who defines him/herself as out of any religious system, to be equated precisely to what he wants to evade

                      You have a faith, an unprovable and unscientific set of beliefs, that says God does not exist.

                      Either that, or you are not what most people call an "atheist." This is the essential component of atheism as popularly understood, as the term is popularly used, by an overwhelming majority of the people who use the word, and adhere to the system of bel
                    • Atheism is the religion of no religion. And you are absolutely right in stating that it is a religion.
                    • That said, understand also that’s it’s offensive for an atheist, who defines him/herself as out of any religious system, to be equated precisely to what he wants to evade.

                      Atheism is a religion. The existence of God cannot be proven and neither can it be disproven, therefore to believe that no God exists is a faith. Agnosticism, not atheism, elides the issue of faith.

                    • "Atheism is a religion." War is Peace. Slavery is Freedom. Ignorance is Strength.
                  • Your misguided claim that atheism is scientifically unprovable shows that you don’t understand it.

                    Mu.

                    The question of whether God exists is outside the very scope of science.

                    If our understanding of quantum mechanics and relativity is correct, then there are physical limits to how much insight we can gain about the Universe; because they impose limits on how much of the Universe we can subject to the scientific method of theoretic prediction and observational review. This means we will never