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NOTE: use Perl; is on undef hiatus. You can read content, but you can't post it. More info will be forthcoming forthcomingly.

All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • Although I more or less accept your argument that we need to be bolder in evolving Perl 5, I think you've contradicted yourself a little bit.

    You're trying to give examples that are real world, but in the real world (at least in Java and Perl), pretty much all code is going to need to rely on third party libraries, so you need some sort of dependency management system. Both Perl and Java have massive codebases to draw from, much of it open source.

    So a real Java programmer is going to write classes, but they're probably also going to compose their app using Spring. Which means they either need to hack an Ant script, or configure a Maven project. Neither of which is trivial (well, configuring a basic Maven project is trivial, but trying to do anything outside the One True Maven Way is not).

    The fact that so much of the Java world depends on Spring, and that most of the apps written using Java these days wouldn't be sane without it doesn't seem to bother the Java community. Why are some people so bothered that modern Perl apps need to depend on Moose (or some other framework, e.g. Catalyst, DBIx::Class, or what have you)?

    • Why are some people so bothered that modern Perl apps need to depend on Moose (or some other framework, e.g. Catalyst, DBIx::Class, or what have you)?

      I don't understand the connection to what I wrote.

      My question is, and remains, Is there no value in adopting Perl 6 syntax and semantics where they are clearer and more intention-revealing and simpler than Perl 5 syntax and semantics?

      Yes, a novice Perl programmer can download and install Moose and autobox and this and that to make his life easier, and he ca

      • The connection is obvious. Moose is optimized (or optimizes Perl5) for Object Oriented Programming.

        So by using Moose you overcome the problem you talked about in your post: that Perl5 by default is not optimized of OOP.

        And I would like to highlight one important characteristic of Perl, Perl is supposed to make things easy: Easy things -> Trivial, Hard Things -> Easy and Very Hards Things -> Reasonably hard.

        Printing hellow world, is easy, therefore should be trivial. Java doesn't make it trivi

        • So by using Moose you overcome the problem you talked about in your post: that [Perl 5] by default is not optimized of OOP.

          Moose isn't part of Perl 5 by default. I want nicer defaults.

    • The reason I use Perl much more often than Java is that I dislike Java's complexity. However, one area where Java is easier for me is class programming. I'd like to see the base Perl 5 be as simple and easy when it comes to creating and using classes. It would be an important step forward and keep Perl in touch with the philosophy of keeping easy things easy. As for Java programmers using Spring for real world problems, I think that is a separate problem for Perl to solve; once it gets around to making simp