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NOTE: use Perl; is on undef hiatus. You can read content, but you can't post it. More info will be forthcoming forthcomingly.

All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • While I think Paul was a better thinker than Augustine, City of God is a good treatise on the issue. One of the common responses to this "theological problem" is that justice performed against a nation or carried out by a nation is different from justice carried out by an individual. That line of thinking comes from a reading of Romans 10.

    (Tune in next week where I'll talk about the historical development of Maryology.)

    • Yeah; there are many good arguments both ways. I'm mainly saying that people need to quit assuming Bible-believers are irrational or hypocritical if they support war/the death penalty/whatever. "Thou shalt not kill" never had anything to do with these issues, and I think it's been said often enough that the only reason some people don't know is willful ignorance.

      --
      J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
      • I'm curious how some other editions of the Bible, such as the NIV, translate it.
        • Re:Law and Theology (Score:3, Informative)

          by jdavidb (1361) on 2003.08.27 14:21 (#23578) Homepage Journal

          My Bible site [goreadthebible.com] will get you three translations; you can find others at Bible gateway [gospelcom.net] and the unbound Bible [biola.edu]. The ten commandments are recorded twice: once in Exodus 20, and once in Deuteronomy 5. Major translations you might want to compare would be the KJV, NASB, NIV, followed by ASV, NKJV, RSV, NRSV, and others. Note that I haven't personally done an exhaustive translation comparison study on this, so I couldn't tell you what you'll find.

          I googled for thou shalt not kill murder hebrew [google.com] and found some relevant information. I'd suggest you read several of those for a balanced view and to see what's out there; the first link looks horrible, but the second [ucalgary.ca] looks pretty good.

          Note that the uneducated among us religious folk are sometimes very confused about principles of translation. Many don't seem to realize that the Bible was originally not written in English. When a translation contridicts one of their favorite doctrines as taught in their favorite translation (usually the KJV), they complain that the Bible has been "changed," even if the new translation is more accurate, because they are usually not knowledgeable enough to realize the issues involved. The question is not how do the translations put it, but what did the original Hebrew word mean. I think you'll find most are agreed that that word has reference to murder, an illegal taking of human life, not the taking of animal life or any of several possibly legal senses where it might be just to take a human life (self-defense, just war, death penalty, or whatever).

          Even if you don't dig into the Hebrew, the context makes it pretty obvious that the Ten Commandments were intended to prohibit murder, not the several forms of killing which are debatedly justifiable in some senses. The same God who commanded "Thou shalt not kill" also commanded the death penalty for many reasons. (In the Old Testament; I hope I've made it clear I don't believe any of that applies today.) There are plenty who would like to stick their fingers in their ears and whine that God or the Bible is self-contradictory on this, but the majority of reasonable people can see why some killing might be considered justifiable and legal, even if they don't personally agree with the conclusion.

          --
          J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
          • Translations of the Bible are indeed a fascinating subject. I'm pretty disappointed when I see people claiming that one traduction is elected over the others -- the Catholic Church teached for centuries that there was Only One True translation of the Bible (in Latin, the one of St Hieronymus) (and even nowadays, there are people who think that a Mass not being said in Latin is an heresy. sic.) Note that I'm completely unfamiliar with the English translations of the Bible. But I own several Bibles in French.
            • Thanks for sharing all that. Someday, if you're ever in DFW, I'll have to show you my large collection of English translations. :) I think I have about 25! [I'm jealous of my dad, though, who recently acquired a paperback copy of the translation of William Tyndale, updated only to modernize the English spelling. It looks very readable. Tyndale's always been one of my heros.

              For the record, modern American Protestantism has an "inspired KJV" [bible.ca] movement that very much resembles the old Catholic belief in

              --
              J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
              • Inspired KJV ? I guess that every religion has its share of extremists, but this is a weird hobbyhorse. I mean, I can understand a muslim who thinks that classical Arab is a sacred language, or an Hindu who thinks that Sanskrit is a sacred language, because their respective sacred books were originally written in those languages. But a translation ?

                And we're speaking about Christianism, which commands IIRC to spread the word of Jesus (hence the speaking in tongues, for example). (That's one of the reasons

                • Hey, I didn't say it made any sense. :P There's a history link somewhere on that page I linked to before that tells a little bit about how it spread. In addition to the ones who actually believe the KJV is the word of God, there are many who still treat it like "original." Others have "changed." Some claim the KJV is "under attack." And I read a very old review of the American Bible Society's Today's English Version that stated, "Like all modern translations, this version is desperately corrupt." In o

                  --
                  J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers