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NOTE: use Perl; is on undef hiatus. You can read content, but you can't post it. More info will be forthcoming forthcomingly.

All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • Perl 6 was a precondition for modern Perl.

    • I bet that assertion would meet anything from full agreement to full disagreement among Perl 5 people. Doesn't say much about its truth content, of course.

      But I wouldn't put it past the Perl 5 people to invent things like Moose and the testing culture even without Perl 6 doing experiments at the front lines. Maybe in a hypothetical parallel universe where Perl 6 never existed, they'd have chosen to be inspired by the good parts of Haskell or Python or Ruby (or other languages with good parts) instead.

      • Maybe in a hypothetical parallel universe where Perl 6 never existed....

        Only the solipsists among us can do anything other than theorize over what might have happened if or if not. What happened happened. Immature poets imitate and mature poets steal -- in part because mature poets have no trouble crediting their inspirations.

        • Only the solipsists among us can do anything other than theorize over what might have happened if or if not. What happened happened. Immature poets imitate and mature poets steal -- in part because mature poets have no trouble crediting their inspirations.

          Right. Just saying that there's a qualitative distinction between "Perl 6 inspired modern Perl" and "Perl 6 was a precondition for modern Perl."

          • I see no distinction. You might as well say "Without Perl 6, we'd have modern Perl anyway!" as "Without Perl 6, we'd have flying cars by now!" Absent a time machine, empiricism doesn't work that way.

            • By the same reasoning, how can you be so certain that Perl 6 was a precondition for modern Perl? There can't be any evidence that modern Perl wouldn't have happened in one form or another if Perl 6 didn't exist.

              Maybe there is simply a misunderstanding of the meaning of "precondition" in this context.

              --
              Ordinary morality is for ordinary people. -- Aleister Crowley
              • There can't be any evidence that modern Perl wouldn't have happened in one form or another if Perl 6 didn't exist.

                I pay little attention to that hypothetical situation because we live in a world where Perl 6 does exist. My assertion is that it's easy to demonstrate how Perl 6 inspired, influenced, and instigated many parts of modern Perl: make a list of features of modern Perl, figure out who started them and why, and correlate those to the development of Perl 6.

                I already mentioned testing. Consider Moo

                • It's just that "inspiration", "influence" and "instigation" are something different than "precondition". That's at least my impression as a non-native English speaker.

                  --
                  Ordinary morality is for ordinary people. -- Aleister Crowley
                  • Certainly there's a touch of tautology in my original statement, but that makes it no less true. We can't know what might have arisen in a world without Perl 6, but we can say that a relentless expunging of every influence of Perl 6 in the Perl 5 ecosystem would cripple modern Perl as we understand it now.

                    I could speculate as to whether Perl circa 2010 in that hypothetical universe would be better, worse, or different from as we understand it now, but I won't. What happened happened, and many of those hap

      • Moose is definitely attributable to Perl 6, but didn't the testing culture predate it?

        --
        J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
        • Schwern wrote Test::Simple and then Test::More as part of an overhaul of Perl 5 testing to prepare for Perl 6; he was the chair of the Perl QA working group formed as part of the Perl 6 working groups. I extracted Test::Builder from both at Schwern's suggestion.

          • I see. I absolutely did not realize this! Thank you for helping me see this additional debt Perl 5 owes to 6.

            I also didn't realize you were responsible for Test::Builder; I thought that was all Schwern.

            --
            J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers