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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • I think that summary of the author's point is this:

    "If white people find this restriction on their vocabulary unreasonable they need only bring forward the day when racism is eradicated - a day all black people look forward to - after which they can say what they like."

    I think for white people to not respect the fact that black people don't like to hear white people say it is just fucked up. Just because a black person says something or acts in a certain way does _not_ mean that it's okay for a white p
    • I understood his argument, but I found it fundamentally irrational, or at least irrationally expressed. It was not "the word is bad because..." but instead "this upsets us (or really, some of us), although you wouldn't really understand it".

      Moreover, it's founded on a basically flawed theory of meaning -- the idea that you get to judge words based not on their intended meaning (because that would really be "context"), but on however listeners or passersby want to willfully misconstrue [uiowa.edu] them.

      I run into a s

      • That's all very nice but...

        As a white person its not really your position to be telling black people what they can or cannot be upset over.

        Honestly, it sounds irrational to me too, but I suspect that this comes from the racism of being white. More importantly, I realize that if I made the argument you're making, black people would interpret it as racism. At which point you'd say something about how irrational that is. Except the fact is, that given the average black person's experience, assuming raci
        • As a white person its not really your position to be telling black people what they can or cannot be upset over.

          Then I say the converse is necessarily true: it is not a black person's position, as a black person, to be telling white people what words they can or cannot use.

          I personally don't think anyone has any business telling people what words they can or cannot use, or what they should or should not be upset about, and further that this never has one damned thing to do with color.

          Honestly, it sou

          • Speak for yourself. I am not racist in the slightest.

            It is simply not possible to be white and not be racist. You have enjoyed white privilege your entire life, at the expense of people of color. That is racist.

            Now as to how I'd define white privilige [whiteprivilege.com], just follow [utexas.edu] the [dickshovel.com] links [disciples.org].

            I doubt you could honestly tell me that you haven't experienced those privileges. If you have. but maybe you've never noticed them, that's a privilege too.

            That is the heart of racism. Its not about whether you think black peo
            • It is simply not possible to be white and not be racist.

              Only insofar as it is not possible to be human and not be racist.

              You have enjoyed white privilege your entire life, at the expense of people of color.

              No, I have not.

              I doubt you could honestly tell me that you haven't experienced those privileges. If you have. but maybe you've never noticed them, that's a privilege too.

              I refuse to bow to your desire to use the word "privilege" to mean "normalcy." Please use words properly. Yes, I know

              • >> You have enjoyed white privilege your entire life, at the expense of people of color.

                > No, I have not.

                Yes, you have.

                People of color are less able to compete with white people for things like quality education (starting with elementary), college admissions, jobs, housing, loans, etc.

                That's not to mention the fact that if you get arrested you're more likely to get a light sentence (no jail), you're less likely to get arrested in the first place, you're less likely to be beaten by a police officer, less likely to be shot by one.

                So all these things reduce the amount of competition for the things that you want by making sure that the playing field is not equal.

                Then there's the historical impact of racism which ensured that your family has had more of a chance to build up wealth from generation to generation than people of color, further improving your chances for success.

                > I refuse to bow to your desire to use the word "privilege" to mean "normalcy." Please use words properly. Yes, I know that words mean what people use them to mean, but my hope is that we can stop this linguistic abomination before it spreads much further.

                Its only "normal" because you're white! Please read the dictionary definition of privilege [dictionary.com]

                Specifically, 1.a., "A special advantage, immunity, permission, right, or benefit granted to or enjoyed by an individual, class, or caste."

                So, you have had a number of advantages because of your skin color that people with different skin colors do not have and you somehow think that qualifies as normal and not a privilege?

                > My life is not made easier by my race. It is true that, usually, my life is not made harder by my race. But those two things are not the same. I do not view life as a contest, whereby others being subjugated makes my life that much better or easier. I do not compete with anyone else for what I have. If I could not get what I have because someone else had it, I would get something else. My life is my own. Are the lives of "white people in America" better because of the subjugation of blacks? Perhaps. But what's that got to do with me? I am not a group.

                Ok, so its not easier but its not harder. But relative to a person of color, your life is easier, right? As to whether life is a contest. Well, it _shouldn't_ be. But the fact is that everything you have is something someone else cannot have. They can't have your job. They can't have your inherited wealth. They can't have your home. That isn't to say that it is a zero sum game, and you have to give all that up. But rather, inasmuch as less people of color are inhibited from competing for limited resources that are universally wanted, white people have an advantage in terms of getting them.

                And yes, white people in America have very much benefitted from the subjugation of blacks (and Native Americans, and hispanics, etc). The fact that this country is fabulously wealthy comes at least in part from the theft of Native land, the exploitation of slave labor, etc. And you benefit from that. Certainly, if you were born a black man, you wouldn't be nearly as likely to have what you have now in terms of job, wealth, education, etc.

                You have benefitted quite directly from that historical exploitation.

                > I have been a victim of such treatment moreso than many black people I know. Growing up in Eastern Massachusetts as a non-Irish non-Italian right-wing conservative Republican born-again Protestant who was smart and awkward and tall and overweight ... I was more of an outcast than any kid of color in the town.

                But its highly unlikely that the police were more likely to stop you for driving in an Irish neighborhood. Nor were you significantly less likely to be called on in math class. Nor did you have trouble finding positive representations of white people in the media. And I'm sure when you applied for a job you weren't less likely to be considered because of your race. This isn't about being an "outcast". I don't really give a flying *beep* about your difficult time in high school (been there, done that myself). That's a far cry from institutional racism that limits your opportunities for the rest of your life.

                I don't really think that this sort of forum is productive for an ongoing discussion of this nature. I would suggest that you read some books on racism before we go any further. Two of my favorites are "Uprooting Racism" by Paul Kivel and "The Debt: What America Owes to Blacks" by Randall Robinson. These books make any point I could make in far greater detail, with supporting examples even. You and I could go back and forth on this for a long time, but I'm not sure what the point would be.

                Perhaps you have some books/articles representing a contrary viewpoint you'd like to recommend. We could both agree to read something on each other's lists and then come back to this.
                • People of color are less able to compete with white people for things like quality education (starting with elementary), college admissions, jobs, housing, loans, etc.

                  I do not compete with anyone for any of these things. Education? It was public, open to everyone who lived there. College? Nearly everyone got in to my college, and I would have had a better chance if I were not white. Job? Probably no difference, but if there were, it would be easier if I weren't white. Housing? I was the only one