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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • Smalltalk was once the #1 OO language. Of course, that was when it was the only "general purpose" OO language, before C++ was released.

    I have actually been paid to program in SmallTalk twice, and to build an interface from one Scheme to another with C. I went from C to SmallTalk to Objective-C to C++ to Perl (and Java), so perhaps I can provide some perspective. I have coded just about every "write only language" -- most of them for pay.

    Apart from Simula and the like, Smalltalk is the purest OO language
    --
    Bill
    # I had a sig when sigs were cool
    use Sig;
    • by Isaac Gouy (5303) on 2004.09.14 12:37 (#34327)
      "So why aren't they used more?"
      One reason is badly dated mis-information like this!

      "Historically, lack of integration with legacy databases"
      Pre-historically! Smalltalk ORM was common from '90

      "actively hostile to multiple programmers and source control"
      From the late '80s Envy/Developer provided fine-grained (method level versioning) source code management. All the code was in a multi-user, replicated, database.

      "Wall Street had... Patching live code on the fly is scary"
      Many of those systems are still around. (Working on live production systems is dumb in any language - normal work was done on development machines, sweated on staging machines, and then pushed to production servers.)
      • From the late '80s Envy/Developer provided fine-grained (method level versioning) source code management. All the code was in a multi-user, replicated, database.

        You've struck a cultural difference here.

        On this side of the fence, "source control" is an aspect of the development process independent from the platform. We generally think of source control as standalone tools like subversion, cvs, rcs, perforce, clearcase and whatnot. Source code management in Smalltalk is a different beast with the sam

        • "an observation that our favorite tools and skills aren't supported. And that's disturbing"
          I haven't seen people have difficulty learning the tools. I've seen people have real difficulty understanding object oriented design.
        • What makes you claim "Smalltalk VMs... are are inferior to, say, Java, Perl, C# or Visual Basic"?
          What comparison are you making?
          • Um, read what I wrote. I am not making the claim that Smalltalk is superior or inferior to anything.

            I am making the claim when we say "Smalltalk doesn't support source code management", it's not the same thing you hear when you respond "Envy/Developer provides SCM."

            We are saying "we are happy with cvs/p4/svn/..., and cannot use our tools in your development environment." Your response that those capabilities exist in some other form does nothing to assuage our skepticism.

            I do acknowledge that some l

      • I think Envy/Developer is another reason why SmallTalk has issues with acceptance. As a programmer, there are certain things I look for in a development environment, not just a language. I want to know about the language(s) I'll be using, how source control is managed, the database (if any), the test suite, the IDE (if any), etc. I like to learn about those things one piece at a time. Throw too many at me at once, or tell me I cannot use tools that I am comfortable with and I'll likely be less intereste