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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • "I need this one thing so everyone else must need it too. What kind of shitty framework doesn't include this thing?!"

    For the record, I have no use for that thing whatsoever, and I'm glad Catalyst doesn't build it in. I'm also glad Catalyst has a plugin system that lets people put something on CPAN that _you_ can use if you want to.

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      On the other hand. When people need to start projects and they're looking into which Framework to use, the posters issues and your response are some of the same reasons people stop choosing or looking at Perl.

      I love Perl and the Cat folks. But sometimes, the " lets make no decisions or include no requirements by default because everyone wants a different thing" is off putting at best.

      As sucky as we say RoR, or Django, or CakePHP are for being inflexible, they becam

      • But is the fix to jam all this stuff in Catalyst?

        Maybe the fix is to make a super duper CatalystX::CRUD thingy, market the hell out of it, and recommend it to the new users.

        Meanwhile, people like me, who want to get shit done in our own way don't have to deal with ripping out 100k of scaffolding that the opinionated framework stuck in our app when we said " MyApp".

        I do agree, being newbie friendly is very important. But that's more a question of marketing and and having something available. That

        • I do agree, being newbie friendly is very important. But that's more a question of marketing and and having something available.

          It's 2009. Why can't Perl have good defaults by now?

          • I'm not sure what "good defaults" means. Scaffolding is not a good default if you don't need scaffolding.

            And I was talking about Catalyst, not Perl. Yes, Perl (the core) could use better defaults. Catalyst is fine the way it is (well, it needs lots of changes but not wholesale addition of huge features for a small audience).

            • If Catalyst is the preferred web framework for new Perl projects in 2009, it either needs good defaults such that novices can pick it up and start to be productive without having to make several technical choices they're not necessarily qualified to make, or it needs a very clear explanation that it's not for novices.

              It's perfectly fine to say "Catalyst is a platform for experts who can assemble their own frameworks for themselves." It's not acceptable to say "Catalyst is the right place to start for everyone."