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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • you are being completely unbiased when you say that there isn't a clique. There are many. Saying that's it's one big happy meritocracy is like saying the US is one big happy democracy.

    • Can you name some? I agree that in 1999 it seemed a pretty hostile environment, but I feel like we've really made great strides in opening up since then.

      If there are cliques, they're still relatively easy to get into. It seems to me that it's a damn sight easier to make your way into the upper echelons of Perl than in any business of the same size.

      And while a CEO-sized paycheck of respect won't pay the bills, it can make your 9-5 grind a little more bearable. Mr Jark doesn't get paid for his hard wor

      • Elaine's right, at least in the realm wider than p5p or perl6-internals. (And with p5p it's only since things got less contentious) It is far from a meritocracy once you hit the newsgroups (Hi, Gojira!), some of the mongers meetings, or some of the subject-specific perl mailing lists. It's less bad in person than in email or news, but the issues are often still there.

        Yes, some of the Exalted Inner Realms are a lot easier to get into on sheer merit than they used to be, but there's more to perl than those.

        • Indeed. It has nothing to do with how many people name their children after Jarkko or how they gush over the amount of time he spends on perl...rather a general observation of human behaviour in a lot of different places. It's not unique to Perl but I just wanted to make the point that it would be a mistake to think that somehow the people of perl have managed to transcend earthly human behavioural patterns. It's not always a bad thing but they do exist. Being female in a 98% male crowd may also give me a

          • You still haven't actually named any specific cliques. But I take what I assume is your point that there are buttheads and bigots in Perl. I don't think I was saying there aren't buttheads and bigots, or that the Perl world is perfect, only that I'm amazed that it's been possible for me to do what I've done, and that it's still possible for others to do the same and better. It feels so much more conquerable than the "real world".

            As for your technical contributions ... you're just a sysadmin, right? :-)

            • by hfb (74) on 2002.01.04 11:02 (#2679) Homepage Journal

              I believe we met when you were the ass grabber mr. torkington :) Gone are those days replaced by the prim image of pious family man *sigh*

              And, no worries, I am a decidedly cheap and goofy drunk but it does seem to get far more press than it deserves. We usually see only what we want to see or hear only what we want to hear so I made the example personal since I am no more immune to that than anyone else and it was the most fresh on the stack. It has less to do with affection rather how we interact without noticing the more insidious undertow.

              In a larger sense, yes, it is possible to join up, do something useful and join the Robert Bly style drum circle of merit. However, like children on a playground some are more equal than others. P5P has gone from fire and brimstone to more of a culture of ego in the last few years and for some reason I find myself missing the 'shark tank' for what Nazgul-esque culture that has displaced it.

              It is fascinating this culture and I wouldn't hang around if I didn't think the good outweighed the bad. At one point I thought about making a map of people and who they were 'in' with and who they talked shit about behind their back...I found the idea amusing but some things are best left alone. A clique is defined as "a narrow exclusive circle or group of persons; especially : one held together by common interests, views, or purposes" and there are plenty 'round these parts.

              • In some sense I think I agree, in that while a meritocracy is great, it is also unfortunate when people introduce each other by exchanging CVs instead of shaking hands. Sometimes "what have you done for us lately?" is as bad as "we don't know you so you can't do anything for us."

                A nice thing about #perl is that while you are respected for what you do, you are also respected for who you are. You can hang out and do nothing, or almost nothing, for "the Perl community" but still be respected by many, just