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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • Part of me wants to object, but part of me totally agrees.

    This is indeed why I'm pretty vocal against newbies creating their own templating language. They all start out "simple", and then slowly add variables (of course), and then decision and iteration. And once you have state/decision/iteration, you have turing completeness, and you start treating the templating language like a programming language, and it's all downhill from there.

    One of the things I like about Template Toolkit though is that it at le

    • Randal L. Schwartz
    • Stonehenge
    • Is really using something like TT2 for "programmy" things so wrong?

      I have abused TT2 to develop whole websites where there's a simple Apache module that can load the base template and pass it an object which can fetch records out of the database as hashes.

      The great thing about this is that people who don't think of themselves as being able to program are doing clever things with loops, and writing conditional logic. Of course you end up with something that might not be as neat as if it used a MVC architecture and "dumb" templates, but the real world isn't neat and I'm more interested in empowering others to get things done.

      Paul Graham's ViaWeb (now Yahoo Store) uses templates written in Lisp, that you develop with a web interface which basically hides the parenthesis. I've seen what most people would consider horrible ugly, contorted code, but the ability for a non-programmer to program and get results is something that's always impressed me.
      • I don't think he was advocating that getting "programmy" with TT is wrong. He does advocate that TT has a ceiling where the "programmy" stuff gets hard and that is his signal to take a step back and look at what he is doing and how he is doing it.
      • Yes, it really is dangerous to write anything significant in the TT language. The problem is, as Fred pointed out, TT's language sucks at error messages and catching mistakes when compared to Perl. Perl gives good diagnostics, has a debugger and profiler, has strict and warnings, has perltidy, etc. TT has none of these things. Perl is also a lot more efficient in most cases.

        I think the TT language is great, as long as you stick to using it for templating tasks: put this here, loop through these. Any