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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • There is part of me that just wants to yell, "FOR FUCK'S SAKE IT'S A 40 BY 40 PICTURE! SUCK IT UP YOU BAG OF WHINGERS!" So I will. And it's not just at you, hex, it's more a building frustration that this Gravatar thing frames.

    You know what really pisses me off? What ever happened to "hey, cool idea! A little rough around the edges, but I see where you're going." Maybe even, "here's a patch to make it better." No, I get "it doesn't do EXACTLY what I want EXACTLY the way I want it so I'm going to block it AND I'm going to complain about it publicly". What the hell is that? Don't like it? Either A) help or B) ignore it -- but above all, get the hell out of the way of people doing work. Trying new things. Experimenting. And doing it without a bunch of people nit-picking their every move. I can take this crap, but I've been doing this a long time. It scares people, keeps them from being bold, and we lose good people because of it. If people don't feel they can try new things we're dead.

    What ever happened to rough consensus and running code? That's what made Perl great, pragmatism. It took me and Graham maybe an hour to put up something that works pretty good. Now we can play with it. Now we can work on improving it. Now we can know what works and what doesn't by TRYING IT not by sitting around and talking about it forever. It's live, it works, it's here and now.

    If we tried to put together all the shit you're talking about it would be a year later and we'd have nothing. The implementation has been thought through as much as it needs to be to get it off the ground. No, we're not going to write our own bloody protocol. No, we're not going to implement OpenID. No, we're not going to have a community discussion about it. No, we're not going to write a whole social user preferences system JUST TO PUT A PICTURE ON A WEB SITE! That's all crap we can add later if it turns out we need it. If we're so calcified that we can't even do that without people getting upset we're doomed.

    Your points are about implementation details. They don't actually effect the user. Stop worrying so much about the bloody implementation details and look at the idea. The idea is what's important. What it does is what's important. How you use it is what's important. Are you going to work on it? No? Then why do you care? Implementation can be changed. We're good programmers, we know how to do that. Unless you're actually doing the work, stop talking about how it does it and start talking about what it does. Why it does it. What can we do with it? What would make it more awesome?

    You want OpenID for CPAN? Great, go work on it. Talk with Andreas and Graham about it. Work something out. You want a more reliable Gravatar server? A cached mirror would be trivial, you don't even have to parse the protocol. Gravatar::URL is already even setup to use a different base URL. You could implement it in less time then it would take to respond to this. You don't like how the author pictures are displayed on search? Ok, send feedback to Graham via proper channels. You don't like something? HELP FIX IT! Bitching is not doing.

    End of rant.

    And dear lord, no more centralization of Perl web stuff. That's what got us into this sort of mess in the first place. But that's another rant.
    • [replies in no particular order]

      Ok, send feedback to Graham via proper channels. You don't like something? HELP FIX IT! Bitching is not doing.

      I'm sorry, but when it comes to THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT SITE IN THE ENTIRE PERL WORLD, I like to discuss things in public. Because you know what? There's no mailing list for it. No newsgroup. No wiki. use.perl is the closest thing we have. If you, Graham or brian aren't happy with a public and gravely important community website being discussed in public, that'

      • 99.9% of all Perl module users use search.cpan

        You're in a vicious cycle. Nobody will write something different because everyone uses Everyone uses because nobody has written something different. (Not to dis on kobeserach, of course, but it's also mostly the same as There's little radically different.)

        But the attitude of "this is the site that everyone uses" is exactly the centralization that Schwern is talking about. Where are the CPAN mashups?



        • Where are the CPAN APIs?

          • Make your own mirror. You have all you need to make


            • What is that non-sequitur a reply to?

              Your asked where the CPAN mashups are. I answered that the existing services provide no APIs, so no mashups get written. And no, a dump of several gigabytes worth of moderately inconsistent data in quirky formats does not an API constitute.

      • You know the beautiful thing about perl is that I can mostly disappear for a few years, have a kid, not give a damn and casually stroll through one evening out of curiosity and find the same shit going around the spin cycle. I giggle at the thought of Schwern telling anyone to offer Graham patches. Holy fuck, what a sadist he is. :)

        That code likely rates so high on the scale of milibarrs that it would inflict rapid cranial decompression for most who would gaze lustily upon it. It has been almost a decade