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• We destroyed our logic before invading (Score:2)

  by Ovid (2709)

  Over in Great Britain, Tony Blair is taking a lot of heat because those weapons were the primary reason for our unpopular invasion. Over here in "love it or leave it" America, you don't hear a lot about it. Colin Powell cites plagiarized intelligence reports (which Britain later admitted) and forged documents (that no one claims to know the origin of) and yet no seems to care.

  So we're going after Saddam for the weapons but we couldn't find them. Eh, maybe we were going after him for his role in 9/11.
  • Re:We destroyed our logic before invading (Score:1)

    by jordan (120)

    The justification to invade Iraq was that Iraq didn't live up to their commitment to 'fully, proactively and immediately' disarm as required by Resolution 1441. Everyone who signed on to Resolution 1441, the entire UN Security council, was clear on the fact that Iraq did possess such weapons.

    It was clear that they were playing games with the UN Inspectors. It's also clear from what we are finding that they had an active program to develop or research WMDs.

    The fact that they may have been busy destroying
    • Re:We destroyed our logic before invading (Score:2)

      by schwern (1528)

      It was clear that they were playing games with the UN Inspectors.

      You don't invade a country because they're playing parliamentary games.

      Certainly, if Iraq had no WMD, they could have fully cooperated with the UN Inspectors and made a mockery of the US and probably gotten the sanctions lifted in no time.

      I'd love to see how the US would react to UN weapons inspectors and what sort of reception they'd get (and, of course, our subcequent invasion of ourself based on their shoddy treatment). Just th
      • Re:We destroyed our logic before invading (Score:1)

        by jordan (120) on 2003.05.29 21:22 (#20631) Homepage Journal

        • I'd love to see how the US would react to UN weapons inspectors and what sort of reception they'd get (and, of course, our subcequent invasion of ourself based on their shoddy treatment).

        
        

        The US didn't lose a war where one of the conditions of Armistice was full accounting and destruction of their Weapons of Mass Destruction. Iraq signed on to conditions of inspections in 1992, thus no sovereignty was being violated. We were just enforcing the terms of that Armistice.
        

        No matter how hard you try to spin it, George W. Bush is not Saddam Hussein, Weapons of Mass Destruction in the hands of the US are not the same as in the hands of Iraq.
        

        • You don't invade a country because they didn't fill out the proper paperwork.
          

        
        

        When that "paperwork" are the conditions of an unconditional surrender, you'd better fill it out properly or be prepared to pay the consequences.
        

        • Why? Perhaps because they destroyed them like the UN told them to!
          

        
        

        They clearly didn't destroy them like the UN told them to. The UN told them to destroy them and provide a full accounting for them.
        

        We didn't invade a country because they were playing "parliamentary games" (what that means in this context I couldn't guess). We invaded them because they failed to live up to the conditions of armistice that they agreed to after Gulf War I. This included full, complete verifiable destruction of WMD which the UNSCOM inspectors actually identified and renouncing all territorial claims to Kuwait (Iraq instead reasserted it's claims to Kuwait).
        

        Resolution 1441 was just their last chance to live up to their commitments and the allies determined that it was just more of the same old games.
        

        UN Security Council members like Russia and France clearly had no intention of enforcing the Gulf War I Armistice, with their Billions invested in Saddam's continued existence. Those two even clamoured for lifting of all sanctions in 1999.
        

        Sometimes, you just have to do the right thing no matter the diplomatic opposition. I think this is one of those times.
        

        Lost in all this is the mysery of the Iraqi people. Saddam literally starved them to death and was allowed to blame us for it, enflaming the Arab street. The best of both worlds for Saddam and the worst for us. And, you anti-war types just don't seem to care a bit.

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        • Re:We destroyed our logic before invading (Score:3, Insightful)

          by schwern (1528)

          I'd love to see how the US would react to UN weapons inspectors and what sort of reception they'd get (and, of course, our subcequent invasion of ourself based on their shoddy treatment).

          The US didn't lose a war where one of the conditions of Armistice was full accounting and destruction of their Weapons of Mass Destruction.

          You miss the point. You put forth Iraq playing games with UN inspectors as an admission of guilt. Consider the hypothectical situation of UN weapon inspectors in the US. Yo
          • Re:We destroyed our logic before invading (Score:1)

            by jordan (120)

            • You miss the point. You put forth Iraq playing games with UN inspectors as an admission of guilt.

            When Resolution 1441 required 'full, immediate and proactive disarmament' and a full accounting for weapons that previous UN inspectors had identified and they play games, that is not an admission of guilt, that is, in itself, a violation.

            I think you miss the point our insisting on the language of Resolution 1441 requiring "full, immediate and proactive disarmament". You see, inspections have never worked
          • Re:We destroyed our logic before invading (Score:1)

            by pudge (1)

            You put forth Iraq playing games with UN inspectors as an admission of guilt.
            
            I don't. I think it is very fishy, but not necessarily a sign of guilt.
            
            Consider the hypothectical situation of UN weapon inspectors in the US. You know the US would scream bloody murder if they came into our country, regardless of the reason.
            
            So? Then we would be wrong too. Look, Iraq was stated as guilty by the UN Security Council, and that guilty verdict was reaffirmed more than a dozen times in a dozen years; Iraq itself
            • Re:We destroyed our logic before invading (Score:2)

              by pudge (1)

              You put forth Iraq playing games with UN inspectors as an admission of guilt.
              
              I don't. I think it is very fishy, but not necessarily a sign of guilt.
              
              To clarify ... yes, it IS absolute guilt under Resolution 1441, Resolution 687, etc. Iraq was guilty, without any doubt, of breaching those resolutions, which Resolution 1441 said would result in serious consequences, and Resolution 687 said would require the UN Security Council to take further steps (which it refused to do).
              
              Iraq was absolutely guilty of
          • Re:We destroyed our logic before invading (Score:2)

            by pudge (1)

            See, here's the problem with that: That Armistice was signed with the UN, not the US and Britian. We can't charge in under the pretext of enforcing an argreement signed with a different political body.
            
            That is an eminently fair point to make, but it misses something, IMO. Resolution 687 was not merely a warning to Iraq to comply or else; it was a promise to the United States that the UN Security Concil would handle the situation. It was a cease-fire between Iraq, Kuwait, and the other nations involved.
            
            T