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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • "I need this one thing so everyone else must need it too. What kind of shitty framework doesn't include this thing?!"

    For the record, I have no use for that thing whatsoever, and I'm glad Catalyst doesn't build it in. I'm also glad Catalyst has a plugin system that lets people put something on CPAN that _you_ can use if you want to.

    • http://chrislaco.com/articles/mvc-marathon/ [chrislaco.com]

      On the other hand. When people need to start projects and they're looking into which Framework to use, the posters issues and your response are some of the same reasons people stop choosing or looking at Perl.

      I love Perl and the Cat folks. But sometimes, the " lets make no decisions or include no requirements by default because everyone wants a different thing" is off putting at best.

      As sucky as we say RoR, or Django, or CakePHP are for being inflexible, they becam

      • But is the fix to jam all this stuff in Catalyst?

        Maybe the fix is to make a super duper CatalystX::CRUD thingy, market the hell out of it, and recommend it to the new users.

        Meanwhile, people like me, who want to get shit done in our own way don't have to deal with ripping out 100k of scaffolding that the opinionated framework stuck in our app when we said "catalyst.pl MyApp".

        I do agree, being newbie friendly is very important. But that's more a question of marketing and and having something available. That

        • I do agree, being newbie friendly is very important. But that's more a question of marketing and and having something available.

          It's 2009. Why can't Perl have good defaults by now?

          • Because nobody wrote them, or thought about them more than just "I need this now, can we add it?"

            I've been writing much more docs (for other projects, that is) in the past than I am now. I wonder if the large number of "Your docs are crap! I _shouldn't_ have to work this hard to understand it!" has anything to do with it. Sure, people _shouldn't_ have to worry about some things. But why should I worry? I have no gain from it. I already have the software.

            Besides, it is often forgotten that the integrating "Patches welcome" methodology just works. That's how DBIC, Catalyst, Moose and others got their large number of committers.

            Another problem is that there just isn't anyone to blame. We can't blame the people for wanting easier entry, and we can't blame the people for not doing enough for others in their free time.

            --
            Ordinary morality is for ordinary people. -- Aleister Crowley
            • Besides, it is often forgotten that the integrating "Patches welcome" methodology just works.

              I've written a few patches myself.

              • I didn't mean to imply anything else.

                --
                Ordinary morality is for ordinary people. -- Aleister Crowley
                • Oh, I know. Several of those patches have gone unapplied because they change the defaults in a backwards-incompatible way.

                  The reason we can't have good defaults in Perl 5 is because we've never had good defaults in Perl 5, and why should we make things easier for new people? It's a bad reason, but it's a pervasive one.