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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • The tone of the posting confuses me. Are we merely cheering for mod_perl (something I can get behind), or are we also cheering for the non-increase in the use of mod_php? If so, why?

    I don't use mod_php, but I know that it has its weaknesses. It also seems to get more shit than its due among Perl programmers. For a programmers of a language that revels in the multiplicity of ways of doing things, I wonder why the schadenfreude. Or am I just imagining it?

    Now if we were talking about ASP... :-)

    • all I was trying to say was that it is pretty cool that mod_perl is finally catching up to PHP in this particular statistic.

      of course, my bias toward mod_perl for web application development [modperlcookbook.org] is obvious, so it's only natural that I hope to see mod_perl in the number 1 slot :)
    • I've got to say that most often when talking to PHP "developers" I'm on defense.

      Most seem to want proclaim things such as PHP's amazing ability to split strings on a pattern, or something like that.

      Even in my job perl comes across as an "old" language, unusable for todays modern tasks. Of course the sheer amount of projects we have going kinda refutes that argument :)
    • by m2 (833) on 2002.09.08 5:28 (#12621)

      I've got to admit I have strong feelings against PHP. My introduction to PHP happened during the PHP 3 to 4 transition and it was more or less an exercise in self teaching. The project was nothing but a smallish in-my-free-time database-driven website developed from the ground up. The reason why PHP was picked is that other people involved in that project already had experience with PHP (and one or two where self-proclaimed Perl haters).

      To make a long story short, my frustration with PHP grew continously. The language is amazingly ridig and I had this constant feeling its designers were trying to "make Perl right". For anyone with a passable Perl knowledge, it's quite clear PHP draws visibly from Perl, but, and this is the crux of it, it "corrects" Perl. There Is Not More Than One Way To Do It. Usually there's only one. I guess that makes it easier for people to learn it, because when they ask Joe, they get about the same answer they would get from Mary. But for me the downside is that things tend to get painfully verbose.

      That alone wouldn't be a reason to hate PHP... but sooner or later you'll face PHP's largest weakness: the database API is horrendously inconsistent -- which IMO only reflects the whole picture. After programming with PHP for a while, you have got to ask yourself Why do I do this this way if I'm dealing with Foo but in different way when I'm dealing with Bar even if Foo and Bar are very similar? Regarding the DB API, in the mean time things have got better, someone rolled up the sleeves and wrote a DBI-like thing, but I've never actually used it. But the underlying issue remains.

      Having said that, some people complain about Perls' OO system. They obviously haven't seen PHP's. With the right direction Perl's evolves from "Huh?" to "Wow!" (thank you Damian). PHP's will always remain at the "yuck!" level. PHP's isn't anything but namespaces -- go ahead, try to implement a singleton pattern in PHP (but please keep all your razors and pointy objects locked down, I don't want to feel guilty if you commit suicide while you are at it).

      Put all that aside if you want. PHP's swiss-cheese security record should be reason enough to keep away from it.

      'nuff ranting.

      • I used PHP, then came to Perl through work. PHP is nice for making quick and easy web applications. It is true that the DB API is horribly inconsistent, but making a webapp that's plug'n'play between different RDBMS by experience will need some specialized functions anyway. But if you are willing to tie to one RDBMS, then it's not that bad. Also, remember that coming from one language to another, you tend to bring with you luggage. Although we as experienced developers like the total freedom in Perl, progr
      • I am a Java developer (specialise in websphere ee app development). I am also a lead developer for a multi dev culture in an international merchant bank. Although java been my core, I have had much experience in integrating other cultural dev languages into our environment(ie php, perl, vs, dotnet, etc). Unfortunately I don't see the problems you are complaining about in php as they are common to all environments to some degree or other. Our approach is to apply our architected abstraction layer to the tech