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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • Part of the problem is trademark law. If you have a trademark, you have to control its use and you can't let just anyone use it for anything. You have to defend its use so it's actaully a mark of the trade that you do and not a generic mark that anyone uses. A trademark is used to distinguish what you do against what other people do. That's the point, and the law says that you have to do various things to defend your mark.

    Python, on the other hand, apparently isn't using their images as an actual trademark
    • You make a good point. I guess my question is, why does there need to be a Perl trademark in that way? What benefit does it provide to TPF and the wider Perl community?
      • The benefit to TPF is clear: they can mark officially supported projects as part of TPF. When you see the Onion logo, you know you are looking at something from the TPF. Thus, TPF controls how its reputation and perception are used.

        TPF has obvious benefit to the wider community, and them taking the completely reasonable and usual steps to protect their reputation and perception through their mark is normal business. As TPF conducts themselves with due diligence, they can be an effective organization and con
        • Heh. Well, I would prefer if someone officially associated with Perl were to do that, as grink commented, and give public use their blessing.

          I think a lot of people feel it's a pity that when a (great) logo finally appears for Perl, after years of the community having to piggyback on an O'Reilly trademark, that we're not actually allowed to use it. Good design unfortunately appears to be in short supply in the Perl world, for reasons I don't understand; perhaps because the lack of perceived "glamor" doesn

          • The idea of getting a TPF trademark was so we'd have a logo we (the Perl community) could use freely. I intentionally drafted the trademark policy [] very simply, so we wouldn't get bogged down in horrible formalities every time someone wanted to use the trademark. The policy explicitly grants free use to the Perl Mongers groups and Perl Monks, which covers a huge section of the Perl community.

            The basic rule for anything else is "if you're not sure it's an acceptable use from the trademark page, just email us
            • Thanks for commenting, Allison.

              You say:

              The policy explicitly grants free use to the Perl Mongers groups and Perl Monks, which covers a huge section of the Perl community.
              I have to take issue with you there. The policy you linked to says:

              This authorization to use the Perl logo is limited to uses by the organizations themselves, and doesn't extend to individual members.
              That certainly doesn't seem to be a huge section of the community.

              To keep the trademark, we do have to grant permission for any uses outside the trademark policy, but that permission isn't anything more complex than an email from us saying it's okay.
              Fair enough, but you seem to have painted us into a corner. The "official logo" is a trademark, and can't be used freely (let's not even get into the "unofficial logo", the camel, which is an equally messed-up situation); and any new, free logo that you come up with won't get the same mindshare - especially because you haven't just trademarked "The Perl Foundation", you've trademarked "Perl" and the onion, the only branding we have.

              A brand works when it is one distinctive recognizable logo []. We have one, but it's shackled by the legal requirements to maintain it as a trademark.

              If I had a situation like this with one of my own projects - which didn't have large amounts of money and public recognition riding on its logo, as we don't - I would throw it away and start from scratch while I still could. But I know that you can't, and I don't have any better suggestions. All I can say is, good luck.