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  • You are certainly entitled to your opinion and I wont try to convince you to use Moose as I am sure your opinion is not knee-jerk, however I would like to just address a few points.

    To start with, Moose is still a work in progress and is in no way up to the level of sophistication as say a full blown language, so there will be some dark and ugly corners sometimes. Some of the things we are currently working on are both startup speed (we can't reduce the "bloat", but we can at least make it less noticable)

    • by jplindstrom (594) on 2009.01.15 9:42 (#66852) Journal

      Why isn't something like Moose::Error::Croak the default behaviour?

      Sure, it's convenient for Moose developers to see the stack trace. But it's very inconvenient for application programmers using Moose to be exposed to internal details, useless for debugging the mistake they just made.

      The most interesting difference between these two groups of people is that the Moose developers already know more about Moose, and how to turn the stack trace on. Moose users don't, so a sensible default would be to cater to their needs. Also, there are more of them.

      • Why isn't something like Moose::Error::Croak the default behaviour?

        Well, *I* like stack traces, both when I am developing Moose and developing with Moose. In fact, before I even wrote Moose I wrote Class::Throwable which not only gives stack traces, but allows nested exception re-throwing so you can have multiple levels of stack traces (yes, that means a stack trace showing from where you re-threw the exception in addition to the stack trace of the original exception). Since until about 6 months ago I

        • "I will agree that the stack traces sometimes expose too much of the Moose internals"

          That was actually what I meant, I'm not averse to stack traces in general.

          But the few times I've seen them, I found that the internals part of the trace tended to drown out the information useful to find out why my "has" declaration was wrong.

          • I am hoping that careful usage of Carp::Clan will help this, the real issue is striking that balance between not enough information and too much information. It has been on my TODO list for a long time now, but as i said it is all about the tuits right now.

            - Stevan