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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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Perl v. Java 4 Comments More | Login | Reply /

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  • I posted a comment on perlmonks [perlmonks.org] recently about this need for Perl people to put down Java, but a couple more things:

    Dedicated IDEs are bullshit. There, I said it. Coders shouldn't handle their code with the tongs of an IDE, like some poor MS Word shlub. If the java folks have more IDEs than Perl People, good on 'em.

    The thing missing from this statement is some sort of qualification, like "for me". I am more productive in xemacs and a CLI, but I'd never presume to tell someone else their tools are shit (e.g., "Coders shouldn't...") -- particularly when I've never used their tools myself. Such arrogance turns people off from hearing our substantial (and very powerful) arguments. And it also prevents us from finding what's useful from these tools and doing the old embrace-extend two-step.

    I think the sentiment we should be aiming for is to show these people that an IDE is one tool that people can be productive in, but our tools can also help you be amazingly productive. They're different, they require a learning curve, but so does everything. Getting into a pissing match about which tool can do X faster is (IMO) useless and counter-productive.

    CPAN: spot-on. There is a CJAN [sourceforge.net] movement afoot but it will be quite some time before it can come up with something useful. Many folks have said it but it always bears repeating: CPAN is Perl's killer development app.

    Readability: I also agree. People not familiar with Perl see the sigils and figure they'd never get used to it. They also mistake verbosity (which Java has in spades) for clarity.

    • As the self-appointed perl historian I always find it amusing when people ask how to make their own CPAN. All you have to do is read the packrats archive [perl.org] to see that there was little discussion about the matter and 2 guys who just put something together and did it. PAUSE is the killer app, CPAN is merely the distribution method :)

    • The problem is the Perl is ghettoized in programming community at large. If you read the original Slashdot thread, this will become very apparent. It is my belief that too many programmers have no real idea how their code and the bare-metal machine on which it runs work together. The whole notion of an application dedicated to programming is really a windows concept. In unix, the WHOLE operating system is the IDE. In Windows, user-end programming feels like an afterthought.

      Also here at use.perl, I know I'm

      • I hear you about Perl being ghettoized. But I've found that people who can put two clues together will be convinced when I quickly create something that works well and reliably. Or when someone asks, "Do you know if we can...?" and I immediately respond: "There's a module for that. I've used it. It's easy."

        People who aren't convinced by results aren't going to be convinced by anything, and they'll pass from fad to fad and eventually (in a perfect world?) seek their natural level. After a few strenuous tri

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