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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • Standards are good, but what part of the phrase "enterprise-class framework" means anything besides a vendor shaking his own hand vigorously?

    As far as I'm concerned, a programming language in its context with its libraries itself is a framework.

    As far as I'm concerned, "enterprise-class" means that some 500 companies in the U.S. and maybe another 1000 abroad use it deliberately and on purpose and have to customize something so general to work in their specific cases.

    As far as I'm aware, most programme

    • Quite a bit of a language's use and acceptance will be driven by those "500 companies in the U.S." Were many of them to come out and say "we're hiring Perl programmers like mad," you can bet your Camel that programmers are going to notice. Tool vendors are going to notice. A P2EE project will be born and certification processes will be created. Perl would dominate and non-Perl programmers will still continue to sneer at us while secretly hitting the books on the language in hopes of paying their mortgag

  • I'm curious. You say "TIMTOWTDI is often viewed as being the antithesis [of] standards" (I presume you meant an "of" there). Is that the case? If I write two different object models, using good Patterns for both, haven't I implemented MTOWTDI using standards -- and possibly even done it well?

    Anyway, my beef with big "do it all for you" class frameworks is that:

    1. I haven't seen any compelling evidence that it produces better results, so far

    2. it insulates me too much from the iron, and when things go
    • I must say that I agree with all of your points. However, it's a matter of perception. Until we can convince those who actually make the language decisions that Perl is a good choice, they still are going to choose other languages. Let's face it, Java's market share is due to their marketing share and despite Perl programmer's protests to the contrary, there are sometimes very good reasons to choose Java over Perl.

      For a while I thought that those reasons would go away when Perl 6 comes out but I was fi

      • I'm not sure it's possible for me to care less if the CIO of a random Fortune 500 companies doesn't realize that design patterns are a lot more important to Java than Perl because Java's much less flexible than Perl. I wouldn't expect him to make smart decisions based on that knowledge anyway.

        I don't expect big companies to make smart decisions. I expect them to make "safe", top-down decisions that don't really have much bearing on the people who do actual work. Meanwhile, I expect a big chunk of the r

        • then I'd darned well care about any company that might potentially be convinced to hire me. Big, small, stupid, smart. A paycheck is a paycheck.

          Given the choice I'm with you, I want a smaller company that tries to evaluate languages and hire the right people. Working with the right people is so much more fun than the alternative.

          But I see where Ovid is coming from as well.
  • The "subsidies" of which you speak are generally in the form of tax breaks. A great many US films also benefit from tax breaks, by the dodgy accounting the studios use to claim that films never made a profit. So I guess Hollyweird is also subsidised by the government. This same dodgy accounting is also used by the film and music industries to ensure that artists don't get their fair share of the proceeds in far too many cases.

    Peter Greenaway should be flogged with Ewan McGregor's wang for making that (and all his other) self-indulgent crapfests. But from him we do learn the valuable lesson that:

    • Yeah, I know not everyone appreciates Greenaway's work. Perhaps what puts it into perspective is realizing the Greenaway hates D.W. Griffith. D.W. Griffith was one of the pioneers of film, with the horribly racist Birth of a Nation []. What made that film interesting is that he focused heavily on telling a story in a linear fashion and its success pretty much set into stone the "Visual Novel" idea of film-making.

      Greenaway, by contrast, feels that film is primarily a visual media that should be used as suc

      • It's not just girls drooling over DiCaprio. It's also guys dooling over Kate Winslet. I plead guilty.

        But I must admit, I've never seen "Titanic" completely. Not in one go, anyway.

  • Hi Ovid!

    I'm attempting a reverse straw man attack, here. Programming should, above all else, be fun and empowering to the programmer or else you'll lose all of your good hackers (with hand waving towards Paul Graham's "Great Hackers" article).

    However, we human beings are not qualified to assess ourselves. Perl programmers fail to assess themselves accurately, but This causes problems as novices (usually more full of barely post-pubescent testosterone than knowledge) frequently and grotesquely miss the