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  • I have to second hfb's comment. Not for the sake of starting a debate but because I'm genuinely curious. France has had ID cards forever (well, for at least quite a while before I was born) and I haven't had a single occasion to consider that a problem. I've actually found those useful: you show up at an administration and ask for something, they punch in your ID number (or scan the card) and immediately have all the info they need. It's not like it's private information, you'd have had to fill it out yo


    -- Robin Berjon []

    • Do you have reasons to be wary of what your government may do

      This is the same governement, in fact this is the same home secretary, who recently tried to sneak through powers to let the post office snoop on e-mail without seeking court approval. There is no may here - they do do. Is that alone a good enough reason, or do I need to give you more? :-(

      • Oh I do understand that governments try that sort of thing, it's not the exclusive of yours... However, my question is more "how do you think having an ID card system will make that worse?"


        -- Robin Berjon []

        • However, my question is more "how do you think having an ID card system will make that worse?"

          24 hours on and I still haven't got a good answer to that question. So here's a "sorry to keep you waiting" post. You can pretend that you're being played annoying musak if it helps :-)

          • The propsed system is hugely wrong for several reasons:

            1) It's apparently "not compulsory". Unless you want to drive, use a bank account, buy or rent a house, claim welfare, use the NHS, pay tax, vote, or travel. For starters. So unless you're homeless, penniless and in perfect health, it's effectively compulsory. When one of the basic principles of the scheme is based on a lie, I tend to get suspicious.

            2) Note the number of institutions who will have access to it. the DVLA (driving), the NHS, the Home Of
            • by hfb (74) on 2003.01.14 20:16 (#16014) Homepage Journal

              The US has the Social Security Number, SSN, which is required and used for everything from bank accounts, health care, employment, credit cards, buying a car, getting a drivers license, buying a home, getting a cell phone, etc. the list is seemingly endless. Many of these agencies share information reciprocally based on your name, DOB and SSN so as long as you have these numbers it's a cakewalk to 'steal' someone's identity. A government issued ID card isn't likely to increase this type of fraud and may even help to reduce some cases of fraud. The US had a case this November of an employee of Equifax, a major credit reporting agency, who sold the information to credit thieves which made it easy since all they needed was the DOB and SSN whereas if a picture ID along with biometric data were required for any kind of transaction it would likely have made the job a lot more difficult.

              The US gov had had centralised data on most individuals for at least 2 decades now and the credit card companies have an utterly frightening amount of data collected on spending patterns so the fear of more fraud or big brother is a little too little and a little too late.

              I think the focus of the objections should be not of the fear of what has already been around for 20 or more years but how to make it more secure and less vulnerable to casual hacking along with bringing the laws up to scratch for people who commit these sorts of crimes. The national ID would be an administrative convenience that might even save money in the long-term though that might be too optimistic considering there is a giant bureaucracy behind it. :)

              • Yes, the US has the SSN, used for identification. But this is no argument for the validity of a national ID card, because we should be working to NOT use the SSN for identification, not to compound the problem the SSN contributes to. Our centralized credit data system is a horrible crime of invasion of privacy against the people of this country.

                It is not "too little too late." It is not too late. There are still things that could be done; the opposite of trying to improve them is trying to centralize M