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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • I like that people test my modules on any version of Perl, but I'd like to see the Testers figure out how to have two sets of results: stable version results and everything else. The stable results are for the public. The everything else gets sent to developers and isn't in the testers database.

    I'd like to see things such as CPAN Search just use the stable results. That might be as easy as slicing the data for public consumption without making any changes to the people doing the testing.

    • That's why the CPAN Testers Matrix (e.g. the PDF::API2 results [radzeit.de]) exists. You can easily see if failures are OS or perl dependent and feel free to ignore it.
      • The CPAN Testers matrix isn't something see on CPAN Search though, which is the point. This isn't the normal techie problem of thinking that the data is there and if people would just look at it everything would be fine. People see the summary of PASS and FAIL on a module page first, and then maybe (maybe) the matrix.

        I want that first impression to be better tuned to what their experience will be, which is using the module with a stable version of Perl.

        • If you're refering to the number of PASSes and FAILs on the summary page --- these numbers are nearly meaningless, just like the cpanrating stars or the number of open RT tickets.
          • Those numbers are quite meaningful to large set of people unable to reliable judge the code themselves. They use results like 100% PASS as a guide of it they can trust the code to work in some random place.

            • People really choose a CPAN distribution based on a single number?
              • Pretend you're not an expert Perl contributor for ten minutes. Imagine that someone told you to find an XML module for Perl from the CPAN. You shuffle through several dozen pages of search results and read the distribution pages. Some of them have a big red "CPAN TESTERS SAYS THIS CODE GETS A FAIL!!!" notice.

                How many non-experts are going to dig into matrices of platform combinations and bleadperl patchlevels to realize that, oh, you can't rearrange the struct members between a PV and a PVMG and retain s

          • Why publish meaningless data?

            • It's just a teaser. If it's 100% PASS, then I don't need to look at the results. If not, then I can look at the matrix and see if there are patterns. Or dive deeper into the results.
  • Yes I get it. You don't like it. You've bitched about it all over the place. I get the message. Instead trying to beat the hell out of me, perhaps you can help fix it.

    Do I really deserve this public thrashing?

    Stop and think for a moment. Would you be so ready to fix problems within your code when someone is persistently telling you how crap you are for not fixing their specific problem?

    • You wouldn't believe the amount of crap I get about some of the stuff Strawberry does that people want changed.

      And yes, I'm trying to fix it.

      Also, I deeply grateful for the stuff you in particular have done to fix the problem on the places you control. You've probably done more to fix this problem than anyone.

  • Your argument may or may not have merit, but PDF::API2 is a terrible example to make your point.

    Have you looked in the t/ directory of PDF::API2? Here, I'll save you the time:

    use Test;
    BEGIN { plan tests => 1 }
    use PDF::API2; ok(1);

    With no unit tests, a PASS is meaningless. Only a FAIL has any meaning at all.

    That said, I think PDF::API2 is good code and Fredo has been remarkably responsive in my experience, but my own not-really-competing CAM::PDF [cpan.org] library has unit tests with code coverage over 50% --

    • True that, but the sheer percentage of FAILs all of which are on non-prod environments provides an excellent visual example.

    • Also, alas, we're doing PDF creation, and we've implemented pretty much an entire graphic design environment, with box geometry model and a ton of other crazy stuff.

      PDF::API2 is the only thing we've found with enough features and control over the generation of the PDF content.

      The old system this replaced used to use PDFLib, but it's not good enough any longer.

      We'll probably end up contributing patches and improvements to PDF::API2, rather than switching.

  • I could agree about the reports for 5.11.0. These can be neglected for some time. I cannot agree about the reports for 5.10.x. So if you look at the filtered reports for 5.10.0 [radzeit.de], then it's clear that PDF-API2's test suite is broken with every perl-5.10.1-tobe. And what did you do about it? Where's the report in the PDF-API2 RT queue? Where's the report on perl5-porters? If nobody takes action, then 5.10.1 will come out, PDF-API2 will be broken and you have to switch to another PDF module.

    I think you could