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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • What's really funny is that Bruce Eckel chides Bruce Tate for the same kind of sloppy thinking that Tate used in Beyond Java.

    <devils-advocate>
    Nevertheless, Eckel has a point, however horribly he stated it. Perl does have a scalability problem with webapps, and we've known it for years. Given enough smart people, you can use any language to get anything done. (But, please, I beg you, keep me away from the APL programmers who want to reimplement Amazon.com! Or the lispers reimplementing del.icio.us
    • How do you optimize to help novices without hobbling the experienced?

      • I dunno, exactly. But Rails looks like it's doing a good job. Maybe there are some lessons to take away from that...

        Step away from the web, and Python did a better job than Perl in that particular respect. Zope is nothing if not a rat's nest of expert coding. Totally befuddling in its own right, but the Zope team wasn't overly hobbled by Python's help-the-newbies approach.

        Haskell, on the other hand, goes to the opposite extreme: hobbling the novices and helping the experienced. ;-)
        • I'm starting to think people are learning the absolute wrong lessons from Rails.

          The right lesson probably starts with "Extract frameworks -- don't build them." Of course, one probably right lesson that some people could learn from Rails is that a language with expressive abstractions can be easier to program in than one without.

          • by perrin (4270) on 2005.12.22 11:10 (#45335) Journal
            They keep saying that, but then I wonder why anyone would build such a big framework with all the helper classes and code generation if it was just for one project (i.e. Basecamp). If I was on a project and we were building that much infrastructure, I'd consider it a big mistake. I think they either planned to make Rails a framework from the start (in which case the whole "extract, don't build" thing is highly suspect) or they massively overengineered the design of Basecamp.