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  • So lets stop this bumbling conversation and do what we do best.

    No. How's that for a clear-cut response? :)

    If you don't want to participate in understanding the perception issue, or if you think this has no value, or if you think you already know the answers, that's OK. I realize plenty of people have one (or more) of those opinions. You don't have to help if you don't want to, but please don't tell others not to try.

    • > If you don't want to participate in understanding the perception issue.

      Whether I want to participate or not is irrelevant. When Gabor started Padre he didn't say "I want to participate in making an great IDE". He simply wanted a great IDE, and he knew that to achieve that he needed to recruit people better than him at producing what he wanted.

      Go watch his talk. His attitude there is what has made him such a good project leader for Padre. []

      What he is doing there is not what we are doing with regards to this issue. We're trying to solve problems we know very little about, without looking to find the people that do know how to solve our kind of problem.

      > or if you think this has no value

      Quite the opposite, I think this has the potential for negative value. To have a bunch of people who know very little prattling on about what to do and distracting everyone.

      > or if you think you already know the answers

      I believe the entire point of my post was that nobody in the conversation so far has the answers.

      > please don't tell others not to try

      I'm telling them to help find the people with the skills we need to fix the problem (and help THEM) ather than try to fix the problems without the skills.

      • OK, now I better understand what you're saying. However, what I'm saying is that we need information and we're the domain experts in the problems we're trying to solve. I also have said several times that we're not qualified to do the actual research. We're qualified to figure out our own goals and contribute expert knowledge on what we might need to make those goals happen. I thought I made that clear a few times, particularly when I wrote []:

        I doubt many of us are experts in market research but maybe someone is and is willing to volunteer services? Maybe we can team up with another open-source group to facilitate this? Maybe we can find a university teaching marketing and propose an interesting research project and domain expertise? Do we have contacts for any of this?

        I've done enough research into this to know that it's unlikely