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All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

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  • The mechanism of a non-profit membership organization in the United States is quite complicated and overly complex. It basically further cripples any action that the administration can do. When I started Perl Mongers, a couple of lawyers explained it all to me and my research all turned up the same answer: don't form as a membership organization if you can help it. If TPF becomes more like a guild (which is what you propose), its tax situation is completely different.

    If you were only in the presidency for a
    • the onyl Perl magazine

      Does that have something to do with onions? :-)

    • As I said, it's a fictional scenario, but one that (ignoring the details of implementing it) I think many people would like to see.

      More participation, more feedback, more opportunity.

      As one of the partners of Stonehenge and the publisher of the only Perl magazine, your view is from a position far closer to the action than people on the other side of the world, with little to no access to the North American community.

      I personally got more out listening into a stream of Allison from Randal's laptop at one mee
      • People don't not particpate because they don't have a way to give money. A membership organization is not going to change that.

        In reality, charitable organizations will always have to beg for money. You get that by developing personal relationships with the people who give out the money (not just the organization that has the money). As a charity, no one can inure private benefit, which means that your plan turns TPF into a non-charity, which cuts you off from charitable giving.

        Changing things to an foreig
      • The TPF has too much money? Where did you find that out, because from out here I had no idea. There's no financials visible since 2003.

        Go to the TPF Web site [perlfoundation.org]. On the left side, near the top of the page, is a clearly visible "tax returns" link. Click on that and you'll see our tax returns through 2004 (I've no idea if this year's return has been filed as I don't handle the money).

        A little below that link is the Fund Drive Status [perlfoundation.org] link. Click on that and you'll see the money we pulled in for last year

        • Go to the TPF Web site. On the left side, near the top of the page, is a clearly visible "tax returns" link. Click on that and you'll see our tax returns through 2004 (I've no idea if this year's return has been filed as I don't handle the money).

          In Adam's defense, the tax returns had only gone through 2003 when he wrote his comment. When I read it, I double-checked to make sure he was right and noticed that the tax returns were only up through 2003. I had the 2004 return in PDF form, but I forgot to po

    • Having been on the Board of several US charities under section 501(c)(3) and an officer of one [former Secretary MoP [museumofprinting.org]], I endorse brian d foy's comments regarding non-profit governance. Membership organizations are possibly the most complex , but all non-profit governance in the US is complex. Not only does it depend upon the exact IRS chapter a corporation is registered under (scientific & educational, good works, fraternal, religious, ...), but also under which options under the local law of whichever
      --
      Bill
      # I had a sig when sigs were cool
      use Sig;
  • I think it's clear that people want some form of official badge as a "serious" Perl developer, even if this isn't a certification-based system.

    Uh, that's not clear at all. I hear very little support for certification of any kind from the Perl developers I know.

    • Agreed. I'm not interested in anything like that.

      I'd rather wave a certificate and say I took a class from Randal Schwartz or somebody (which I didn't), as it would have some real meaning. As it is, my resume says far more than any such meaningless certification would say, and my ability to demonstrate that I can do something useful for a potential employer says far more than even that.

      --
      J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
  • I think it's clear that people want some form of official badge as a "serious" Perl developer, even if this isn't a certification-based system.

    Something mildly related was in this thread [perlmonks.org] on perlmonks recently.

    I would like to see some kind of certification for programmers and some more professionalism in the field in general (particularly after a recent look at some PHP code from the "copy/paste engineering" school of thought.) But, who is going to put that system in place and what is it going to look

  • You know, Bill called me when he found out he would be accepting the job and I told him rather frankly that he was crazy for even thinking about taking the job with this sinking ship and that, aside from the need for transparency, if he could do nothing else it would be to make sure TPF stop treating volunteers and donors like expendable shit found on the bottom of their shoes.

    The problem with this organization is not money or a lack thereof. An organization that has no capacity to thank its donors prop

    • You forgot to mention one problem which has sometimes plagued TPF. People who are a part of it and do nothing but complain about this and that, that and this and hinder progress. People who say they will do things, then don't come through. I think I'm still waiting for a promised newsletter from you from back in '02 to put on the TPF website.

      Allison always returned my emails on TPF issues. Lenzo always returned my emails on TPF issues. In fact, I think everyone has. Maybe it was selective silence.

      As someone
    • Most of your efforts, community participation and comments predate my entry to the Perl community, so I'm afraid can't relate as well as others.

      I just wish sometimes you would articulate your complaints with a little less pesimism, and a little more clarity. Behind the venom I've always you to have good ideas, and so I thank you for the comments. Maybe it IS a crazy idea, it _was_ pretty late, and I _was_ essentially pulling ideas out my ass to see what might pollinate from them.

      The feedback from this, and
  • I spent a bit of time earlier this evening on the phone with Bill Odom, TPF president. It can't be denied that he's been quiet the past few months, but there's a reason for this. Elaine, his wife, has spent most of that time in the hospital, including quite recent emergency surgeries and readmittances. Bill has spent most of that time with her there. (This is why Bill hasn't commented on this topic himself. He has been out of action of a sort he hopes none of us will ever know.)

    Naturally, he has tri