Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments
NOTE: use Perl; is on undef hiatus. You can read content, but you can't post it. More info will be forthcoming forthcomingly.

All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

use Perl Log In

Log In

[ Create a new account ]

Perl 6 Design Minutes for 09 January 2008

Journal written by chromatic (983) and posted by brian_d_foy on 2008.01.17 7:18   Printer-friendly
The Perl 6 design team met by phone on 09 January 2008. Larry, Allison, Patrick, Jerry, Will, Jesse, Nicholas, and chromatic attended.

Patrick:

  • helping people with various Perl 6 tasks
  • impressed with the UTF-8 issues and analysis
  • sped things up with a couple of patches
  • I'll have some recommendations for someone who wants to dive into Parrot internals
  • requires only a bit of C knowledge after we have the right design in place
  • Jerry's been doing a good job of adding Perl patches
  • I'm pleased with progress continuing

Jerry:

  • busy working on Perl 6
  • started journaling on use.perl.org to give people more info on my commits
  • people have been receptive
  • added -h and -v support to the Perl 6 executable
  • working on -c and -e now to make it look like a real executable
  • whether those will be the final options, that's fine
  • I'm sure that this will influence Larry's decision on changing everything
  • made some small patches to LOLCODE, which has been a blast
  • shepherding new people on #perl6 and #parrot who want to help
  • chatted with Allison about writing Perl 6 ops in Perl 6
  • she had some good ideas about how we might do that
  • might work on that this week

Larry:

  • things are busy at work
  • mostly doing various spec things this week
  • semantics of key sets and key bags when you run into the endpoints were not clear
  • introduced a temporary operator, the P5 fat arrow
  • for the translator to use, means comma as in Perl 5
  • the problem is that you have to change the calls and the subs called into at the same time
  • you need to be able to find the P5-like fat arrows
  • the translator should not just translate them into commas
  • it mixes up the intent, where the intent is named arguments
  • it's an intentionally ugly operator
  • there were some questions about binding and autovivification
  • I worked on those
  • the special adverbial forms had confusing documentation in S02
  • I split those out and described them better
  • reiterated that basically Perl 6 is written in Unicode and that module names can be Unicode
  • the library system has to deal with that
  • thrashed out some possible codenames for Perl 6 on Parrot

Jesse:

  • are there Unicode characters not allowed in module names?

Larry:

  • they have to be alphanumeric
  • they have to follow the rules of naming
  • as you can have weirdly-named variables by way of access to the symbol table, you can probably do the same here
  • the library system just has to handle Unicode mapping
  • the official library may have one mechanism, but users may have to deal with their own personal libraries at the same time
  • interesting ideas floating around on the mailing list
  • still thinking about longest token matching in the background
  • may be one of those things that needs a broken prototype first
  • maybe not full DFA right off the bat
  • work up something through tries first
  • thinking about various options first

Allison:

  • wrapped up some of the last concurrency scheduler issues
  • as much as I've implemented so far
  • didn't manage to resolve all of the STM bugs
  • at least I resolved all of those related to the concurrency scheduler
  • we'll revamp STM next month anyway, so I moved on
  • working on the PMC PDD implementation
  • chromatic has been helping on that

c:

  • you made me write a parser

Allison:

  • I made you modify a parser
  • mostly there's code cleanup
  • some changes to the parser that turns our PMC mini-language into actual C though
  • talking to the Debian people about whether to include Artistic 2.0 in the distribution

c:

  • helping Allison with the PMC stuff, hacking on the parser
  • did some profiling and helped find some optimization targets for string handling
  • fixed a couple of bugs, have some segfaults to look at
  • found that our PIR implementation with optimizations is highly competitive with Python and Perl 5, so good there
  • couldn't benchmark it with the Perl 6 implementation yet
  • needs some work to get Fibonacci running

Will:

  • did some work getting LOLCODE running on Parrot
  • it's about as useful as abc, but it's more of a draw for other people
  • managed to get Simon Cozens back at least temporarily
  • hopefully we'll get more tuits from him
  • Parrot 0.5.2 is due next Tuesday
  • Bob Rogers will be doing that, and I'll be the fallback
  • Andy Lester has been bugging us for information on the bugday before the release, so maybe we'll get some new development there
  • it looks like we'll target 0.6.0 for February
  • still working on the read-only frontend for RT to organize tickets in a more readable fashion
  • probably another day of hacking before I can release the front-end
  • talking to Robert about migrating the backend to perl.org

Richard:

  • working mostly on TPF internals stuff
  • putting a few cycles into sponsorship
  • nothing solid to report yet

Nicholas:

  • haven't done more work on the smart match, as Larry responded on p5p before I could
  • haven't yet talked to Rafael
  • we should figure out what to do before 5.10.1 in the next couple of months
  • weren't sure what to call first-class regular expressions in 5.11
  • Yves committed a patch for REGEXP
  • I suggested RULE, but people didn't like that

Jesse:

  • just returned from a week and a half in Portugal
  • ended up not quite pure vacation
  • spent half my time with Perl hackers
  • spent a lot of time chatting with Flavio
  • he's having fun and interested in hacking on Patrick's compiler
  • there's a lot the implementations can learn from each other
  • steal outright even
  • he has some ideas about fairly major testsuite refactorings
  • they're different from Patrick's ideas, and I'm probably not capturing them accurately
  • he wants to break it into various levels of compiler support
  • should be possible to have a large chunk of the test suite run by a first-stage implementation
  • designated features that the compiler supports for levels of the test suite

Jerry:

  • that's the problem to do portably across backends

Allison:

  • different implementations will implement things in different orders
  • when you order the tests, to target implementation work

Larry:

  • we already have a way of marking blocks as TODO
  • maybe Flavio just wants a way of marking file-scoped things

Jesse:

  • it's a desire, not a requirement
  • he believes that there may be a reasonable required order for language implementation

Jerry:

  • coming up with best practices sounds like a great idea

Jesse:

  • Flavio said he'd find it helpful to have a Parrotsketch-style IRC meeting for implementors
  • I want to avoid meeting fatigue though
  • maybe it would make sense to take this meeting online once in a while
  • every other week for #ps

Jerry:

  • or a logged #p6c channel

Jesse:

  • it would be nice to have everyone around in a logged format
  • he did say that he'd like to see more collaboration between implementations
  • he's very eagerly awaiting the longest-token matcher
  • slight connotations of "desperately waiting for"
  • a partial implementation would go a long way toward getting him to hack on it
  • someone in Lisbon.pm is working on a straight-up C runtime for Perl 6

Nicholas:

  • how many implementations are there?
  • there's kp6, there's Perl 6 on Parrot, there's Pugs but I don't know how viable it is

Jesse:

  • within kp6, there are several bootstrap runtimes
  • Perl 5, Common Lisp, kp6 on Parrot
  • Flavio also has a couple of mini-languages written in Perl 6 and compiled to Perl 5 on the CPAN
  • the compiler is slow, but the result is good
  • so there are people using that part of Perl 6 already

Jerry:

  • it's so easy even I can do it!

Jesse:

  • I'm not sure that's "even" in there

Jerry:

  • but that's how I feel about it sometimes!
Display Options Threshold:
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.