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milardj (4452)

milardj
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Journal of milardj (4452)

Friday May 13, 2005
10:00 AM

Kitchen Sink Language

[ #24669 ]
I sporadically follow discussions on lambda (I'm not a PHD but I play one on TV) and while Parrot seems to be *legitimate* in the minds of most lambdaheads Perl6 is openly sneered at.

Perl6 is a kitchen sink language and lack[s] elegance or conceptual consistency and there is some really ugly stuff planned for Perl6. It probably doesn't matter because the language spec is so complex it would be a wonder if it is ever fully implemented (I'm sure Autrijus would concur with that - given his slow progress to date). But all is not bleak with Perl6 design because [o]ccasionally it stumbles across a good idea, in the same way that a construction worker might unearth a fossil when drives his pickaxe through it. Ok not exactly a rave but I guess if we trim a bit of context then we might get a good review:

Perl6 has "[snip][snip][snip][snip][snip][snip][snip][snip][snip][snip][snip][snip]good idea[s] [snip][snip][snip][snip][snip][snip][snip][snip]".

Score one for @Larry.

The flaws in Perl6 design (they aren't really pointed out beyond broad generalities but I'm sure it must be flawed) are most likely due to @Larry's alcohol issues - being a responsible Canadian I've already called every bar, restaurant, licqour|beer store in the greater GTA so there will be no alcohol served to @Larry during YAPC - I REFUSE TO BE AN ENABLER - no more drunken meanderings for @Larry.

I've also started a collection to send @Larry[0] to Lourdes in order to cure his vision issues - no longer will Perl 6 design docs be equated to a blind man's account of constructing a puzzle. PRAISE THE LORD and pass the compiler!

I have a solution to Perl6's image issues. I think everything can be solved with a strategic renaming. Perhaps if the 1.0 press release reads: "After years of effort we are pleased to release version 1.0 of ........... ARC", then like CSN&Y and an entire birkenstock-wearing, barbershop-fearing, and recreational-drug-using generation we would be golden. Or we can change Larry's name to Larry von Wall. Whatever.

Anyway ... keep up the good work everyone and maybe one day Frank Atanassow will finally say: "Perl6? You know what it almost is an improvement on sh" or at least "Perl6? At least it's not Perl5".

References http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/view/687
http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/view/690#comment-6284
http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/view/593
http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/view/309#comment-2405
http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/view/186

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  • but going against the mainstream often makes people mistake insight and truth for anger. His comment:

    "perhaps Perl's biggest advantage is in having libraries for the most obscure tasks.

    Yes, that is my point. It's biggest advantage has nothing to do with the language itself, but rather the social/historical context. And that context could as easily have been/be established for Haskell, if people (had) want(ed) it to be that way.

    (I'm sorry but I really need to get this off my chest, again:) Scr

    • I don't think Frank et al are sneering at Perl6 because @Larry are taking a 'we don't care if people leave as we will build perl6 and more will appear as if by magic.' attitude. That seems to be your issue. Frank is sneering because Perl does not measure up to his ideals. It is no different then some literary writers sneering at mass-market or genre writers while bemoaning that the stupid unwashed masses don't recognize their genius (while conveniently forgetting that Shakespeare and Dickens were in fact