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Journal of luqui (5770)

Thursday December 08, 2005
02:50 AM

Today's Perl 6 Meeting Notes

[ #27892 ]

Allison:
        - Punie now compiles and executes statements
        - print a single digit, multiple digits, or a string with word characters
        - no space characters

Jesse:
        - that's certainly a start

Allison:
        - I want to use Patrick's Text::Balanced hack
        - oh, it also parses multiple statements

Jesse:
        - that's a good way of keeping your code concise
        - is Roberta still gone?

Allison:
        - she'll be back December 14th

Luke:
        - I'm doing finals
        - they're final projects
        - thinking about the type system stuff in my free time
        - also talked to Autrijus about it
        - he convinced me that leaving out a type system is a bad idea for
            interoperability
        - he said some extremely large undecidable calculus
        - trying to come up with a good type system as dynamic at Perl 5's at
            runtime, but at compile time

Jesse:
        - doesn't sound like much

Luke:
        - fairly well-researched except not at all

Larry:
        - only worth two or three PhDs

Jesse:
        - when do you start to free up again?

Luke:
        - my last final is on Monday
        - I'll probably start madly hacking, as long as I have something to
            procrastinate

Larry:
        - merrily hacking away on the Perl 5 to Perl 5 translator
        - translates 73% of the test suite successfully
        - successfully collecting all the type information that the compiler loses
        - starting to think about how I'll use that information
        - also for translating to Perl 6
        - that's still in thought status
        - I'm past the hump on the thing
        - I guess there are two though
        - getting the first 5% of the tests to pass was really hard
        - probably the last 5% will be really hard too
        - then I can think about downloading and translating all of CPAN back to
            itself
        - the tricky thing is I'm not sure what to do about BEGIN blocks that
            skip tests
        - don't bother compiling the rest
        - maybe I need a shim that says "this BEGIN block said to exit, but don't"
        - usually a runtime reason, not a compile-time reason
        - I'm only interested to running until CHECK time basically
        - also worth two or three PhDs

Jesse:
        - then do you plan to spit out an arbitrary AST or go straight to Perl 6?

Larry:
        - I want to be able to spit out the AST, just for Perl 5
        - somewhere in there
        - when I have that done
        - we can open it up
        - pulling the information out of Perl 5 is the insane part of it
        - having the AST out in some form cleanly is a point at which we can open
            up the project to multiple contributors

Jesse:
        - I can see some of the crazy Pugs kids compiling straight to JavaScript

Luke:
        - to PIL first
        - then we get JavaScript automatically!

c:
        - also Perl 5! yay!

Jesse:
        - when did you pull from blead?
        - not sure how painful the merge back will be

Larry:
        - I'm at 5.9.2 at the moment
        - it ought to be mergeable
        - this hairy dance back and forth between the program which does the
            final translation and the internal code which spits out the initial XML
        - my basic philosophy is to make minimal changes to the Perl core
        - to what extent you just mark up the things as they're going out and
            messing up the tree versus intuiting what should have been there...
        - only time will tell whether I made the right decisions
        - I figured that you can drive it one way or another
        - one way and you break the semantics of existing code too much
        - "Just don't do constant folding" breaks plenty of things, such as
            interpolated constant subroutines
        - too much guessing after the fact means I may not have guessed correctly
        - there are intermediate forms in there too
        - go ahead and keep the same structure
        - then annotate it with just a little extra type information for the
            backend
        - I've been doing that compromise more and more
        - seems to work out pretty well
        - the ordinary regression tests have two or three failures that need
            fixing before the merge
        - I don't test that part of it as often as I test the translator

Jesse:
        - I bet we can find some help to deal with that

c:
        - checked in Test::More in PIR
        - talked to Jerry Gay and it looks like we have an easy way to add PIR
            tests to the Perl testing harness
        - I'll check in some of my library tests and see how that works
        - should let us rely on those a little bit more

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