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Journal of luqui (5770)

Wednesday October 12, 2005
07:03 PM

Today's Perl 6 Meeting Notes

[ #27139 ]

Larry:
        - made it back safely from the cruise
        - madly working
        - hanging out on the lists a little bit
        - haven't had enough time to think through the things I want to think
            through

Luke:
        - started the rewrite of attribute grammars module
        - won't eat up memory as much
        - spent hours trying to debug a nasty bug

Larry:
        - a Perl 5 bug?

Luke:
        - no, in my code somewhere
        - also talking with Stevan about the metamodel
        - trying to unify that in my head with theories
        - not working very well
        - but I realize that the theory proposes a type system
        - the metamodel proposes an object system

c:
        - and a reflection system

Luke:
        - Autrijus says he'll talk to Larry in person at EuroOSCON
        - I'll follow along on IRC to catch type annotation stuff

Patrick:
        - working on PGE some more
        - tracked down and fixed a problem with Parrot's coroutine handling
        - rewriting PGE captures code so that match objects are true to what they
            ought to be
        - clean it up, make it faster, make it more accurate
        - working on shift/reduce parser component
        - this first ought to produce Perl 6 rules
        - the recursive descent part is actually the slowest part of the current
            process

Larry:
        - surprise, surprise

Patrick:
        - in the process, I find that match trees look like something I need to do
            tree transforms on
        - expect to have a real-world example in the next week or so
        - we could look at using attribute grammars on it soon
        - I'll be publishing the start and the end and the necessary
            transformations
        - then we can look at them
        - looking at a port of Text::Balanced
        - turned out to be fairly easy to do in Parrot now
        - also posted several questions on the list

Larry:
        - haven't had time to go through the whole document yet

Jesse:
        - do the docs need updating to reflect that?

Larry:
        - undoubtedly

Patrick:
        - Damian has drafts of those
        - I went through them in some detail
        - his latest drafts looked pretty complete to me
        - just looking for confirmation on various things
        - I can pull out the outstanding issues if you need them
        - Damian has another draft I think
        - could use an opinion on letting whitespace before a quantifier imply a
              rule

Larry:
        - in the absence of a better idea, run with it

Patrick:
        - if we put a quantifier on a subrule
        - the quantifier doesn't include any whitespace between them
        - if you put space between the subrule and the quantifier
        - currently it's meaningless
        - what if it put a whitespace rule between each instance?

Luke:
        - maybe a good temporary idea
        - maybe we're approaching the :w thing from the wrong direction
        - all other context-free approaches try it upside-down from us
        - for quick regexes without many calls to subrules, we're good
        - for context-free things, a completely different semantic may be much
            handier

Patrick:
        - we may need both

Allison:
        - had a question for Patrick about my PIR code
        - will e-mail him when I remember

Jesse:
        - more chatter in the implementation meeting
        - Chip's working on the PDDs
        - Leo and Nick both seem to be waiting on bits of design
        - maybe need someone to put together questions which various design docs
            need to say
        - Chip would find it easier to write them by answering questions rather
            than working in a vacuum
        - might need to find some volunteers for them
        - been posting transcripts and links to the implementation notes on
            use.perl.org

Luke:
        - posted a request for comments on annotations to p6l
        - the people on the "programming left" responded
        - "I don't want any type errors anywhere"
        - didn't really generate any interesting thoughts
        - mostly a mood-generating thought
        - are there any ideas about the integration between annotated and
            unannotated code?

Larry:
        - seems like one of those things the user deserves to give a knob
        - what the default setting is

Luke:
        - it's not a trivial knob
        - you're working with a complex system
        - Autrijus and I talked about this some on IRC
        - before we figure out the big issues, we have to figure out the little
            issues

c:
        - would it be helpful to come up with examples where the syntax,
            semantics, and behavior might be a problem?

Luke:
        - that was what my thread tried to do, but it didn't go there

Patrick:
        - everything gets more complex in the middle ground
        - we're not going all type-checked
        - some people never want type checking
        - most people are probably in the middle
        - people need more time to think about that

Jesse:
        - is there anything besides free time that are blocking you?

Larry:
        - brain cells

Patrick:
        - daylight savings time changes are coming
        - we should figure out the implication
        - the calls will be earlier

Allison:
        - last year we postponed the change until December

Jesse:
        - I'll send mail about the time change
        - we'll figure out something that works

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