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Journal of luqui (5770)

Wednesday September 28, 2005
07:06 PM

Today's Perl 6 Meeting Notes

[ #26923 ]

Larry:
        - I took Geneva to school last week
        - since then, I've been playing with a new IBM ThinkPad I received as a
            gift

Patrick:
        - in addition to dual-booting, have you considered running VMWare?
        - maybe I can get you a copy

Larry:
        - I haven't used it since it became more corporate

Patrick:
        - I use it quite a bit on my systems
        - being able to copy and restore VMs is quite nice

Larry:
        - thinking about everything people talked about on p6l in my absence
        - have expressed opinions about some of them

Luke:
        - your points about Yuval's type inference is quite valid
        - I can't understand the stupid error messages

Larry:
        - "Something's wrong at line 42"
        - about that useful
        - also thinking about tree transformations and two-way transformations
        - seems to be one of Autrijus' pet ideas: two-way transformation
        - currently, if you use tree transformations to do macros, he wants to
            turn that back into unmacroized whatever
        - you could write hygienic source filters that way, as it were
        - notion of unifying warnings with exceptions
        - ... where a warning is a guaranteed restartable exception printable by
            the outermost layer by default
        - seems workable

Patrick:
        - I like that

Damian:
        - I like that

Luke:
        - you've just pulled continuations out into user space
        - you promised you wouldn't do that

Larry:
        - not overtly
        - do it by running CATCH closures up the stack and keeping the stack and
            committing to running back when you catch something

Luke:
        - that's a continuation

Larry:
        - we could hide that with .resume or something

Damian:
        - it ought to be a separate kind of named block
        - maybe should be able to catch it in CATCH or something
        - probably cleaner with a WARN block

Larry:
        - possible that they're a type of control

Damian:
        - a lot of people will want to catch warnings
        - it'd be easier to capture it in a name that self-documents

Larry:
        - the name of the warning may be self-documenting anyway

Luke:
        - Piers has always wanted interactive editing
        - if an exception comes up to the top level, it can say "Something's
            wrong; fix it and I'll keep running!"

Larry:
        - that's part of what I was thinking

Jesse:
        - did you have a good vacation, Damian?

Damian:
        - I wish it were a vacation
        - tore maybe half of the muscles in my back
        - had a fair bit of physiotherapy over the past couple of weeks
        - not good for sitting *or* lying down and doing stuff
        - also had a hard disk crash on my primary laptop
        - fortunately had backups, but they don't always back everything up
            properly
        - been interesting times, especially being two weeks away from leaving for
            EuroOSCON
        - I have been creating annoyances on p6l, as you've seen
        - very nice to have Larry back stopping some of the madness
        - very little progress to report elsewhere

Jesse:
        - Patrick brought up something in the implementor's meeting
        - S05 is out of date

Damian:
        - it's waiting on me to put in stuff about capture variables

Jesse:
        - are you the right person to be doing it, or should it go to someone
            else?

Damian:
        - yes to both
        - I have a completed version nearly done
        - it's just slipped
        - I'll get onto it in the next day or two

Patrick:
        - have done more reading, but not much implementation
        - housing people for the past week or so
        - Leo and Chip and the Parrot folks have merged the branches
        - makes my life much easier
        - very happy about that!
        - can move forward on PGE again

Luke:
        - had a hard drive failure, like Damian
        - if you have a RAID, replace a failed hard drive
        - I didn't replace one hard drive after it failed a month and a half ago
        - then another failed
        - it didn't do much for me

Patrick:
        - it gave you an extra month of uptime

Jesse:
        - also Autrijus recommends that you make sure that your RAID controller
            does not format *all* of your disks when you add one
        - anything new?
        - mostly hacking tree transforms?

Luke:
        - wrote a new module, Language::AttributeGrammar
        - implements attribute grammars
        - it was easy to write
        - does everything UUAG does (reference implementation)
        - trying to make it work nicely with PPI and Parse::RecDescent
        - presumably usable to implement something real
        - pretty much finished theory theory
        - it's in the Pugs repository
        - some lambdacamels have reviewed it positively

c:
        - how difficult is it to port L::AG to PIR?

Patrick:
        - I was thinking that too

Luke:
        - hm, somewhat difficult without a Perl 5 preprocessor
        - lots of lazy evaluation and nested closures
        - also thinking about use fatal a bit
        - my first fatal would be semi-fatal
        - things return undef if they fail, but if I ignore that undef things fail

Damian:
        - it returns undef but... ?

Luke:
        - if I ignore that, it causes my stuff to fail
        - behaving like an exception

Larry:
        - fatal in void context, basically

Luke:
        - a fatal undef in void context makes it fail

Damian:
        - that turns out not to be useful; PBP talks about that
        - fatal in p5 has a :void mode
        - it's not that useful
        - you want it to be fatal in non-boolean context

Luke:
        - you'd get a fail back in void context
        - you assign to a variable and that's in void context

Damian:
        - that's not how context works

Luke:
        - there's void context for the assignment expression
        - that's the semicolon
        - I should write this up

Damian:
        - return failures in a non-boolean context should raise the exception

Luke:
        - does // give that context?

Damian:
        - maybe it's not the only context
        - things like assignment must be not considered void
        - write it up and we'll talk about it

Luke:
        - also thinking about junctions
        - not coming up with any happy medium
        - I'll keep it on the list
        - have a meeting with a professor here
        - he's done significant research in attribute grammars

Allison:
        - grab papers if you can
        - they're very valuable
        - they're rarer than hen's teeth
        - my biggest idea has been writing a weblog about "This is why we really
            need Parrot"
        - I've been doing a lot of reading about CLR and Mono and things like that
        - at Amazon.com, I think I managed to kidnap a former CLR developer whose
            NDA will expire shortly
        - Autrijus desperately wants me to check in the compiler tools notes as
            they are
        - I want to make a few changes, but I want to do that in the next few days

Jesse:
        - Chip was at the implementors meeting
        - he's settled, working, and his internal clock has reset
        - we talked about PDDs and how to move faster there
        - he'll start by reviewing their organization
        - then post the index of what he's writing in his head
        - then he'll sketch out each document and get some movement on them there
        - lots of discussion of necessary work to merge Leo's branch
        - the merge has happened
        - I've been getting questions about contributor agreements

Allison:
        - there's a new update
        - the final thing is review of the patent clause
        - especially in relation to the clause we put in the license
        - we can't take either in isolation

Jesse:
        - what do we need to get the review?

Allison:
        - Roberta says we'll have a revision in mid-to-late October

Jesse:
        - okay
        - that's it for me at the moment
        - who'll be on the Perl Whirl?

Allison:
        - Larry and I

Patrick:
        - I won't be here either

Jesse:
        - let's postpone it until next week
        - there will be no call on the 5th, but one on the 12th

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