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jarich (4909)

jarich
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http://www.perltraining.com.au/
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I run Perl Training Australia [perltraining.com.au] with pjf [perl.org] and do a lot of the course writing and maintenance. I also organise the courses we run, so if you want one, just ask. I hang around a bit on Perlmonks [perlmonks.org] and also help run Melbourne Perl Mongers [pm.org].

Journal of jarich (4909)

Wednesday April 29, 2009
03:55 AM

Not an Iron woMan

[ #38890 ]

So mst has launched the Iron Man competition and really I think it's an absolutely great idea. Us Perl folk should be blogging more about Perl, and these blogs should be more easily found. The idea of a simple reward (trophy image) for blogging consistently is a great one.

However, I'm not going to get involved. I think having an incentive like the above would be great for getting me to write more regularly; but I can't get past my issue with the title. I realise that mst has every intention of including women but I don't view that as enough.

As a woman in IT, I am regularly reminded that I'm an odd-one out because of my gender. I turn up to Perl Monger meetings throughout Australia and I'm usually the only woman there. Just as with many other smallish (less than 30 attendee) user group meetings. I get reminded that I'm different because well-meaning guys say to me "It's good to have some gender diversity here". Although I don't get hassled in online forums, on mailing lists and at conferences as some of the women I know have been; it's tiring to always be made to feel different, abnormal.

The issue here is pervasive in our society. It's the perception that male is general and that female is a specific case. I suspect this is partially because in the past we used male gendered words, in some contexts, to express gender neutral concepts. "Mankind". "The patient should advise the doctor whether he may have any contra-indicating factors such as pregnancy". "God is not male, he is spirit". However, despite your intention, I (and many other people - male and female) understand these male gendered words to refer to the male gender most of the time, and not to both genders. At least in sport they're honest about it. It's "300 metre sprint" for men, and "Women's 300 metre sprint" for women. Look through your event listing next time and you'll see that the general case assumes male and the women's events are special.

So even though there are "paper women" trophies and will probably eventually be "iron women" trophies (although you'll note that there are many levels of the male versions already created); I'm not participating. I don't want yet another endeavour to constantly remind me that I'm an aberration. Maybe I'll change my mind later.

A more inclusive name might be "Iron Perl" or "Iron Bloggers" or "Iron Perl Bloggers" with the planet renamed to something equivalent. I agree with mst that "Iron Person" sounds lame. I am particularly fond of "Iron Perl Bloggers" as I feel that it's important for someone first visiting the site to have at least a hint about the site's focus.

Update:

Matt's apologised for comparing me to Paul; for swearing at me and for the fact that his response was disproportionate. It took a while, but we finally are having the productive discussion he wanted.

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  • You have a good point there.

    And, for what it's worth, I find 'Iron Monger' fairly catchy.

    • ...but Iron Man [wikipedia.org] is a hero and Iron Monger [wikipedia.org] is a villain!

      --
      rjbs
      • Yes, but consider...

        - who always has the most awesomest lairs located in the most gorgeous locations? (I mean, Syndrome had a tropical island -- with volcano! to himself. What goes Superman has? A shed in the Arctic!)

        - who seems to be prone to collect prestigious titles like 'Baron', 'Count' and 'Prince'? (did Machiavelli wrote his book in honor of a do-gooder? I think not)

        - who more often than not are filthy rich, throw parties left and right and indulge in every entertaining sins know to mankind? (oka

    • I actually find Iron Monger to be attractive on so many different levels. It's a great play on Perl Monger, it's a nod to the comic books, it's gender non-specific, and it means I have excuse for using an evil laugh when I go up levels. Muhahahaha... *ahem*

    • I think "Iron Monger" is perfect!
    • I think we'll be adopting that as a name for the contestants - it rings nicely for me as a parallel to the way the specific triathlon in question is called Iron Man but the athletes themselves are simply referred to as triathletes

      Look out for updates to the planet and site (and of course my blog since I'm due a post again) as I spend some time scripting various things up to support this.

      • I think we'll be adopting that as a name for the contestants

        This is exceedingly cool. :-)

        Beware, World, for the Iron Mongers are about to descent upon you!

        ... well, okay, according to the rules, it's going to be the Paper Mongers. But just wait for in a few months...

  • Somehow your rant seems self-contradicting from here..

    "it's tiring to always be made to feel different, abnormal."

    So why not accept the logical thought (well to me anyway), and assume that everyone is included, its just a figure of speach?

    IMO its much more of a compliment to have ones existance acknowledged by NOT being mentioned extra, by the speaker (or mst, whatever) just meaning everyone. "Man" is a race, as well as a gender.

    I'd rather we did away with the -woman badges (it got started cos some *g

    • I am an advocate for getting more girls and women into IT, and for keeping the ones we have. This is getting harder. The barriers aren't actually that big; but the biggest one is perception. If we choose words that suggest that something is for men only, that is how a lot of people will see it. When people talk about the "guys" or "blokes" or "men" at Perl Mongers and other IT related things, I presume that they're just being lazy with their words and that I'm included, but not everyone does. Some peo

      • We should be doing everything we possibly can to show that not only is Perl still alive and vibrant, but that it's also welcoming. One little step to help achieve that is to not treat male as the normal, typical, and expected condition.

        That's difficult, but it's also very important. Sometimes even the choice of language helps. I'm usually not a fan of bending usage to fit perceived social goals, but I try in my writings to include women with the language I use.

        It's worth trying, anyway, just to see how

  • I guess since the term has a space in it then it refers to the super hero Iron Man but if it was all one word it would refer to the full distance triathlon which is how I initial read it. I'm surprised that no one else has pointed this out. It makes more as a sort of long-term blogging marathon.

    I'd bring this up with MST personally but I'm currently not very happy with his inter-person behavior... The Perl community shall receive no blogs from me for a while thanks to him.

    • bennymac2: why is every question I ask so fucking onerous?
      mst: because they're all questions you could have answered using google or search.cpan with words that are in your question
      mst: in spite of the questions almost invariably being extremely vague
      bennymac2: i don't know man.. i think you just get a kick out of it. go get laid or something. get some sunshine. unplug for a bit.

      And then you quit. I'm sorry you find doing basic research before asking the community for help onerous, and both my fiancee

      • First of all, my apologies to jarich for hijacking your journal comments. This will most certainly be my last response as, well, I simply don't care enough to continue. A zebra cannot change its stripes and I've seen MST's true colors.

        @MST: You truly believe you're correct and by posting an out of context snippet you've coolly proved to everyone your correctness. The thing is, I didn't go into why I'm not happy and regardless of that no amount of arguing on your part is going to change the fact that I am. Q

        • Your problem was trying to do dynamic subclassing of DBIx::Class result classes. The first result for 'dbix class subclass' on search.cpan.org solved your problem as stated. I'm sorry that was too hard to find for you.

          Hopefully your co-workers are capable of typing three words into a search box in less than a day and a half. They'll be welcome on #dbix-class if that doesn't solve their problem.

          You no longer are. So shut up and fuck off.

          (and I would echo the apology for the thread hijack, but apparently quot

  • I had a couple of enquiries if there'd be * Woman badges as well for those who wanted, and of course there will be - but Mark Keating [shadowcat.co.uk] (who did the original set as a sort of pre-announce publicity thing) was away on holiday at our friend Jane's wedding, so didn't have time to create all of them. I should probably have waited, but I was asked by Paul Fenwick [cpan.org], for whom I have the utmost respect for his work on changelogging for perl core, (along with his choice to sign up to the competition :), to provide "(Pa

  • (ten minutes after my prior comment)

    It occurs to me that my previous comment appears to be blaming Paul for what we did.

    It isn't.

    It's pointing out that among his several pages of constructive bitching, at least half of the points in which we've now addressed and the rest we're trying to as volunteers' time provides, the lack of female badges was one of them, and this is what we did about it given the resources available.

    I take full and absolute responsibility for any and every gender related issue involved

    • jarich is married to pjf.

      I think you'll find that much of the useful feedback you mentioned that pjf provided was a product of both of them.

      • I hadn't made the connection - I've only ever seen the nick 'jarich' on identi.ca and then here complaining about this. I was enlightened fairly shortly after I posted -

        On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:26:42AM +0930, Paul Fenwick wrote:
        > G'day Matt,
        >
        > Matt S Trout wrote:
        > > pjf is jarich's husband :)
        > >
        > > shit.
        >
        > Oh my! I think that's the closest I've ever come to death from laughter. ;)
        >
        > Jacinta's e-mail address is (redacted, fuck you spambots), although i

    • The White Camel awards last year made it clear that jarich is not a part of the problem. The fact that she chooses not to participate in your project in no way means that she isn't doing a heck of a lot for Perl. And the fact that you don't realize that just makes you look bad.

      As for her complaining in her journal, the way that I read that is that she is trying to raise awareness in the Perl community in general. As a way of reaching you it is spectacularly inefficient. But emailing you as a way of reac

      • Except Paul's feedback just said "change the title of the aggregator to 'Planet Perl Iron Man'". And actually, no, the reason she complained here rather than direct to me is that she assumed I wouldn't listen. Amazing how easily even the best of us can be messed over by implicit assumptions, eh :) - fortunately as I noted above, this ones now corrected and we're having what will hopefully be a very productive discussion via email.

        The best way to raise awareness in the perl community would IMO have been to s

  • Because pointing and laughing is the only proper response to this:

    There's going to be no barrier for how badly written it is. None of us are good enough, and that isn't a problem. What matters is we try. What matters is that we make some fucking noise.

    There are billions of people on the Internet. It's a terrible idea for all of them to cough out badly written posts every week when they have nothing to say. Please, people, blog when you have something interesting to say. Subscribe to an aggregator if you