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• Can you put this in perspective for an American? (Score:3, Interesting)

  by jdavidb (1361) on 2002.05.03 8:16 (#7938) Homepage Journal

  I've been having a tough time completely understanding what's been going on in French politics, and now this. People say all kinds of things about American politics, but at least over here overtly racist policies usually don't succeed at high levels of government.

  So, when people say Le Pen or the BNP are racist, which of these do they mean?

  • Opposed to preferential treatment programs or quotas for minorities, such as America's affirmative action, in private business.
  • Same as above, only about government jobs.
  • Opposed to civil rights laws protecting minorities from discrimination.
  • Pat Buchanan: immigrants, go home!
  • Get us out of the European Union.
  • Favoring equal rights for minorities before the law, but actively encouraging nonviolent racism from private citizens.
  • Actively encouraging violent racism from private citizens.
  • Favoring revoking rights of minorities under the law.
  • Subjugation and servitude for minorities.
  • Genocide.

  The reason I ask is because I'm not well read enough to fully understand what's going on on your side of the Atlantic, and I value the direct opinions from you people over there more than what the media says, anyway.

  I know that the longer any dispute goes on, the more potential there is someone will be called a Nazi, but to help me understand, please don't exaggerate if that's not the case. I've got a friend in Romania who kept me up to date with their elections last year, and he was unfortunate enough to be a member of the Hungarian minority that one of the primary candidates hated. Living in the U.S., and being a white male, I can't even imagine what that kind of situation must feel like.

  --
  J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers

  Reply to This

  • Re:Can you put this in perspective for an American (Score:3, Informative)

    by davorg (18)

    Can't tell you about Le Pen, but as for the BNP - this list comes from their policies page [bnp.org.uk].

    • IMMIGRATION - time to say NO!
    • EUROPE - back to British independence!
    • LAW AND ORDER - crack down on crime!
    • ECONOMY - British workers first!
    • EDUCATION - discipline, standards, achievement!
    • AGRICULTURE - quality before quantity!
    • HEALTH - first-class healthcare for all!
    • TRANSPORT - time to invest!
    • ENVIRONMENT - NO to pollution!
    • FOREIGN AID - time to spend our money on our own people!
    • PENSIONERS - pensioners before asylu
    • Re:Can you put this in perspective for an American (Score:3, Interesting)

      by jdavidb (1361)

      Yeah, now that I've looked through their FAQ, I've seen plenty. Opposition to interracial marriage because "a race is a beautiful thing and should stay pure"? Bleah! Turns my stomach! Literally!

      1st and 8th letters of the alphabet

      I thought freaks like that were only in the U.S. Sometimes I weep for my world.

      The repatriation concept is strange. We had a similar movement about slaves in the 1800s; I believe that's part of what founded Nigeria and Monroevia. (You may have already known that; I do

      --
      J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
  • Re:Can you put this in perspective for an American (Score:2)

    by mir (51)

    Your list is not adequate for the French situation: minorities is not a concept that exists in French law (with the exception of women, who are a majority anyway: half of the candidates from any party must be women): everybody is either a French citizen or not.
    
    So officially le pen and his cronies propose to send back illegal immigrants to their countries, prevent foreign workers to bring their families, only give wellfare and "allocations familiale" (money you get from the state when you have kids) to Fren

    --
    mirod
    • Re:Can you put this in perspective for an American (Score:2)

      by jdavidb (1361)

      Thanks for the info. As I said, we Americans are just about completely information-less. Our media said "LePen" and "protests" and that's about it. Nearly every sentence you wrote was a revelation to me.

      --
      J. David works really hard, has a passion for writing good software, and knows many of the world's best Perl programmers
  • Re:Can you put this in perspective for an American (Score:1)

    by Power (3776)

    I'll try to answer your questions about the BNP. Opposed to preferential treatment programs or quotas for minorities, such as America's affirmative action, in private business. Yes the BNP opposes them but so do the mainstream parties maybe excluding the Lib Dem's. Affirmative action discriminates agaisnt whites. Same as above, only about government jobs. Exactly the same as above. Opposed to civil rights laws protecting minorities from discrimination. Yes they are opposed. Pat Buchanan: immigrants, go
    • Re:Can you put this in perspective for an American (Score:2)

      by ask (83)

      Non whites would be able to stay if they wanted in the UK. The only restriction would probly be that they woudn't be allowed to take part in a relationship with a white person.
      
      That is just so sick.
      
        - ask

      --
      

      -- ask bjoern hansen [askbjoernhansen.com], !try; do();
    • Re:Can you put this in perspective for an American (Score:2)

      by darobin (1316)

      Am I right in thinking that you're not a member of the Perl community but just some guy working for the BNP and posting everywhere Google gives you a forum to give the impression that the BNP's ideas are pervasive when, thankfully, they're only shared by a moronic minority. If that is the case, go away and take your propaganda with you.

      --
      

      -- Robin Berjon [berjon.com]
      • Re:Can you put this in perspective for an American (Score:1)

        by Power (3776)

        "Non whites would be able to stay if they wanted in the UK. The only restriction would probly be that they woudn't be allowed to take part in a relationship with a white person."
        
        "That is just so sick."
        
            - ask
        
        That is your view which is strongly disagree with but you still have the right to say whatever you like as do i. I personally find interacial marriages sick and so do a lot of people i know, but that's just my opinion.
        
        What exactly is the perl community? I signed up to your website when
• talking down the BNP (Score:1)

  by robin (1821)

  I wonder whether it's dangerous to talk up the importance of the BNP. What happened in the local elections is not in any way comparable to what happened in France. The BNP have won two places on the town council of a small town in Lancashire - they have no national influence to speak of.

  In France, the Front National is nearly [guardian.co.uk] the second-largest political party. It would be difficult to overstate the difference between the two.
  • Re:talking down the BNP (Score:2)

    by davorg (18)

    Oh, I agree that there's certainly a huge difference in magnitude between what's going on in France and Burnley (where, I think, the BNP won 3 council seats).

    On the other hand, they also made a good showing in Oldham and their popularity is grwoing in parts of Southwark and and Tower Hamlets. I just think that we need to be aware of whats going on and if we can do something to stop their influence growing then hopefully we can stop them ever getting close to the popularity of the Front National in France.
  • Re:talking down the BNP (Score:1)

    by billycotton (4777)

    May I say that the fact you are talking about us is a clear indication that we in the B.N.P.are becoming an increasing relevance to british politics. I will accept that at this present time we are small, but rest assured this will change in the next 10 years, and one of the reasons is because we tell it how it is,we are not constrained by political correctness or interest groups. If my home city of sheffield is anything to go by it could be even les than 10 yrs,The membership in my city is shooting up so th
• in Denmark ... (Score:2)

  by ask (83)

  ... since people are reading this again. :-)
  
  In Denmark the right wing "workers party" (don't like taxes and immigrants; do play up to blue collar workers) is way down in popularity from the election in November 2001. I'm not there anymore, but I hear that it's not because the other parties are taking over their politics, but because people are starting to get tired of the old "no more immigrants" song and realize that the party does not have much more to offer.
  
    - ask

  --
  

  -- ask bjoern hansen [askbjoernhansen.com], !try; do();