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darobin (1316)

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Journal of darobin (1316)

Wednesday January 22, 2003
05:29 AM


[ #10115 ]

I made it back from Down Under, too soon. By now there is probably little that I hate more than flying, but apart from that I'm ok, and quickly de-jetlagging. Uh, it's a bit depressing being back into the winter though.

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  • I too wistfully miss that warmer Australian weather especially at this time of year in the UK.

    In your previous entry you mentioned minutes of a meeting at which SVG issues of kerning and ligatures etc. were discussed - where might those be published? I'm fascinated by SVG but come from a Postscript/PDF perspective and am trying to get a handle on SVGs capabilities/limitations WRT text layout, fonts, presentation quality etc.

    • They'll be published as soon as I'm done cleaning them up :) However I doubt you'll find them of much interest as such though. They are minutes of a live discussion addressing for the most part what happens if a user has defined a ligature in an SVG font that crosses bidi boundaries. It won't give you a good idea of what SVG can do.

      As for what SVG can do, well, it's pretty much powerful like hell. I'm biased of course, but speaking the truth nevertheless ;) The next big step for printers is to star


      -- Robin Berjon []

      • The biggest problem IMHO is that the renderer (or at least the only widely available one - Adobe's) sucks big time. Especially when it comes to performance. The performance of Adobe's SVG viewer is appalling - start doing any simple animation (e.g. making a transparent box slowly appear) and it stutters and slows down and uses 100% CPU. Render a large viewbox and try moving it around with alt-click-drag and it slows to a crawl. Not just the speed but the bugs mean that you can't just stick to the spec - you
        • Such bold and isolated statements need be qualified. The Adobe SVG Viewer is slow on Linux, where it is unsupported, for Matt. Lack of official support for Linux is a pain, but on your average mac or windows performance is excellent until you push it too far.

          And ASV has very few bugs, you just happened to bump into one (I know, I was there!).

          Support is there for the current spec it takes two independent implementations for any feature to make it into the spec. You are being of terrible bad fa


          -- Robin Berjon []

          • I'm using it on the Mac, and it's slow. I also use it on my windows laptop, and it's slow. And you've seen my code - it's not pushing SVG to the limits in any sense of the word.
            • You always complain that things are slow anyway =P It Is Not Slow For Me, including on my old dirty laptop, so that's ok :)


              -- Robin Berjon []

              • No that's not really the point though. If it's slow for me doing a simple "show a box and highlight a line" then it's going to be slow in a lot more areas too (I can't even begin to imagine it replacing flash for anything animated), and if I find it slow on hardware bought this summer then my original statement is going to stand quite firmly.
                • ASV is slow on animated text, especially if it involves opacity. Full stop. CSV, in my limited testing, is not (but you need to grab a non-debug build, which isn't available at this point). Your statement is based on a single experience with a single file. Having developed much larger GUIs using SVG only, and on a modest box, I know it's fast and smooth.

                  Have you tried making the animation last less long? That might make it faster =}


                  -- Robin Berjon []

      • Thanks for the generous reply!

        I'm writing a tool a developer would use to create a data driven report. For previous generations of this tool I've emitted PDF. Now I think SVG might be better - especially for web presentation.

        The other thing you want to do is print these reports - it would be great if printers could consume SVG but for now I'm not troubled as I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to write a special case svg2ps converter (at least for the SVGs my tool is authoring).

        The big issue seems to

        • It's hard to tell if SVG is or not right for what you are looking for, at least until the next version. Spacing and kerning can be controlled to a degree but using a system font, depending on how much control you want you may have to go to absolute positionning of individual glyphs.

          What yo umight want to do there is use the system font to SVG font converter that ships with Batik and use that to get an SVG font over which you then have full control. That's the way in which fonts are embedded into SV


          -- Robin Berjon []