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chromatic (983)

chromatic
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http://wgz.org/chromatic/

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Journal of chromatic (983)

Thursday January 08, 2009
05:03 PM

Perl 6 Design Minutes for 17 December 2008

[ #38241 ]

The Perl 6 design team met by phone on 17 December 2008. Larry, Patrick, Allison, Jerry, Jesse, Nicholas, and chromatic attended.

Jesse:

  • chasing for Hague grant reports

Patrick:

  • produced a report-in-kind -- I prepared a presentation on it for Richard

Larry:

  • finishing up jetlag from my round the world trip

Patrick:

  • lots of hacking over the past two weeks, as I missed the call last week
  • Rakudo passing on the order of 5170 tests, up by 500 from two weeks ago
  • suspect similar rate of improvements over next 2 weeks, modulo vacations
  • can now embed PIR directly into Perl 6 functions; one more piece of the puzzle to write the prelude in Perl 6.

Allison:

  • in a block?

Patrick:

  • it's a quote, q:PIR { }
  • if your code returns anything it becomes the value of that quote
  • it's how Perl 6 specifies it

Jerry:

  • slightly off, in that Perl 6 uses a capital Q

Patrick:

  • we can fix when Jonathan's branch goes in today
  • I was cheating - Rakudo was saying that everything capital was a type
  • Reduction and some hyperoperators now implemented.
  • Array slices, hash slices, list [???] working
  • [???] working catch blocks, I think we've just added control exceptions.
  • We now have the nil type, so returns work correctly.
  • when blocks inside subs work almost completely correctly.
  • [???] interpolation fixed up
  • Did work on the sort algorithm; put a trial balloon up on specifying
  • just the value you want to sort on, rather than the comparison operator.

  • After Friday the kids go away on Christmas break, so I should get no
  • interruptions.

Jerry:

  • last night gave a couple of lightning talks at the Seattle Perl user group
  • one was "New items in Rakudo Perl in 0.8.2" - it definitely took more than 5 minutes. :-)
  • committed first draft of S19, the command line interface.
  • it's not complete
  • I have a few edits pending. Only gotten one or two reviews so far
  • would like more eyes on it.
  • dealing with Parrot Foundation things.
  • trying to set up getting Parrot out of the Rakudo repository, if you want to look at it that way.

Patrick:

  • there is a twitter feed http://twitter.com/rakudoperl
  • whenever a new feature shows up in Rakudo I Twitter it - it's trivial from IRC.
  • you get a running feed, without me needing to stop and write a blog post, or getting bogged down in detail. Blog posts remain for detailed descriptions

Jerry:

  • did a couple of blog posts. Will be blogging shortly about S19
  • 0.8.2 released. We did miss a couple of roadmap items, which makes me a little concerned
  • we can make a bit up, but it still affects things

c:

  • fixed a couple of bugs
  • reviewed the numbers PDD
  • we should definitely use IBM's standard decimal arithmetic library
  • my only concern is distribution and the implications on Rakudo
  • otherwise, proposed a feature and patch to p5p

Nicholas:

  • released 5.8.9

Allison:

  • set up the Ubuntu package archive
  • not quite automated, but close
  • that'll get us better testing from the Ubuntu folks
  • they can just enter our package archive in their F
  • every one of our updates will appear in their system
  • spent a lot of time cleaning up branches
  • haven't committed the install branch yet, but have a smaller patch
  • also working on the calling conventions branch
  • I'm now adding changes one at a time to the new branch in logical units
  • commiting those in passing chunks
  • started talks about migrating Subversion to parrot.org, probably after the January release

Patrick:

  • Rakudo will stay on perl.org
  • should I try to stick that in the existing Perl 6 repository
  • or would that be a good time to move to Git, considering that Perl 5 is moving to Git?

Allison:

  • that has potential

Nicholas:

  • it's hosted by Booking.com
  • github offered hosting

c:

  • seems like doing both at once is useful

Jerry:

  • you're coupling migration and tool switching
  • how much will that slow people down?

Patrick:

  • I don't think it'll slow us down from the people primarily working on it
  • it'll happen around the same time as the move anyway
  • ideally the Rakudo stuff should move before Parrot does

c:

  • I'd like to see instructions on downloading, making local changes, and submitting a patch

Patrick:

  • post-January we could take a week of no features
  • just documentation
  • we need to explain how to get Parrot and such as well

Nicholas:

  • productivity is a concern
  • the Perl 5 conversion has shown that
  • minimizing downtime is important to aim for as well

Jerry:

  • it would be nice to have a champion who isn't Patrick

Patrick:

  • I might be able to find one of the "Git is the second coming" people on the channel to do that

c:

  • I thought it was the first coming

Jerry:

  • that's Obama

c:

  • no, they branch him and commit their own hopes and dreams to him using Git

Patrick:

  • I'll look into that

Nicholas:

  • don't forget the perl.org DNS
  • it's reasonable to have an A record rakudo.git.perl.org
  • you can clone that, but the source can move
  • you decouple the name from the repository

Patrick:

  • now might be the right time to do this
  • because Rakudo is starting to be useful to write useful things
  • I planned to post to Rakudo.org and other places
  • it might be interesting to solve some of the problems from Microsoft's scripting games
  • no one's done Perl 6 solutions for those yet
  • good idea/bad idea/landmines?

Jerry:

  • the consequences will be that people report bugs and make Rakudo better

Patrick:

  • bug reports are highly useful
  • they tend to drive our development better than anything else
  • I hope that people will solve those problems but not run into showstoppers
  • we may be close to that level
  • do I have to worry about any IP concerns?

Allison:

  • we may not be able to check them into the repository
  • but we could check in original code as tests, if you wanted

Patrick:

  • I had no idea in mind to collect these anywhere
  • just have people post to their blogs "I tried this problem; here's a solution"
  • I want to spread out the answers as far as I can
  • more people will have a chance to run across them and comment and show how things are really happening
  • that will happen sometime this week

Jerry:

  • will make install be a prerequisite to Rakudo leaving the repository?

Patrick:

  • I'd like to know what Rakudo will do
  • I might do the Tcl approach of "check out into the Parrot repository"
  • if it hasn't made much progress in the next couple of weeks, I'll have to do it myself
  • getting that target right is more important than the PGE changes
  • from a Rakudo perspective, I need to know what it looks like
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