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chromatic (983)

chromatic
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http://wgz.org/chromatic/

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Journal of chromatic (983)

Friday August 29, 2008
01:34 AM

Perl 6 Design Minutes for 09 July 2008

[ #37301 ]

The Perl 6 design team met by phone on 09 July 2008. Larry, Allison, Jesse, Jerry, Patrick, and chromatic attended.

Larry:

  • standard grammar parses itself 100%
  • thinking about refactoring
  • how do we distinguish the use of grammars from grammars used as the current language
  • refactoring top level namespaces
  • whether STD is part of that name
  • meddling in everyone else's discussions
  • upgraded the spec on transliteration
  • in denial about all of the conferences coming up

Allison:

  • absorbed by OSCON and travel for the next couple of weeks
  • after that, things will pick up
  • working on one (hopefully) final patch to the concurrency branch
  • I know it'll resolve one failing test
  • hope it'll resolve several PGE failures on the branch
  • I'm an hour away from committing that (ideal minutes, but probably an actual hour)
  • we're talking about having a hackathon the Saturday after OSCON

Jesse:

  • is there a venue?

Allison:

  • nothing set up yet, but we do have a default

Jesse:

  • how many people?

Allison:

  • probably about ten
  • Portland State University worked out pretty well for us
  • I'll look for contact information

Patrick:

  • last week, we passed 1365 tests
  • now we're passing 1677, 312 more
  • from the last Friday of June to the first Friday of July, we had an increase of 500 tests
  • almost 50% more than we were

Jesse:

  • how many are newly ported tests and how many used to fail?

Patrick:

  • probably an equal mix of both
  • a big part of that is getting implicit lexicals working, $_, $!, and $/
  • implicit method calls too are working now
  • lots of refactoring, especially for builtins
  • they now seem to work better in the Any class
  • removed a lot of inline PIR code and stuff like that
  • spent an hour on the phone with the Houston Perl Mongers last night
  • they want to work on the test suite as part of their meetings for a while
  • I walked them through building Rakudo, checking out the Pugs repo and test suite, explaining how we do testing
  • they plan to have meetings where someone gives a topic, presents how they think it should work, and then they review or create tests for that feature
  • they'll either move tests from Pugs into spectests, or add tests to spectests
  • I'll try to write that into an article for use Perl or other places
  • a step by step guide for contributing tests
  • haven't started writing my "This Week in Perl 6 Articles" yet
  • should have one by this time next week

Jerry:

  • haven't been able to produce much code
  • participating in code reviews and design discussions
  • this is the mid-term evaluation period for Google Summer of Code
  • all of the mentors and students have submitted their mid-term evaluations
  • it's all gone smoothly
  • all three are going ahead
  • the Parrot Foundation is in process of taking over the NLNet grant from TPF
  • working with the OSU open source labs to host the website
  • expect more on that soon

Allison:

  • because we need SSL certificates, they were going to set us up with our own virtual machine
  • we'll need to purchase the certificate

Jerry:

  • and finalize the purchase of parrot.org

c:

  • applied some patches, fixed a couple of bugs
  • closed some tickets, but a lot more came in
  • worked with Andrew some on fixing bugs in his GC
  • getting closer to the point of merge
  • approved his milestone, setting some priorities for the second half of the work
  • probably won't have much time to work in the next week
  • thinking about Closures, not sure Parrot's approach is entirely right

Patrick:

  • did you see my note about the PGE bugs in the branch?
  • I ran PGE in the concurrency branch yesterday, and get an odd result
  • if you run it by using prove, it gives errors
  • if you run the PIR directly, it works just fine

c:

  • I don't think Parrot::Test adds any flags when it invokes Parrot
  • but t/harness does

Patrick:

  • it's in the operator precedence parser
  • you can specify a particular stop token
  • nothing uses that anywhere anymore, but the test tests it
  • I don't think anything that uses it

Allison:

  • does it throw an exception?

Patrick:

  • it just stops parsing at that point
  • the caller decides what to do
  • it's not detecting that token when it's parsing
  • I pass a string with a stop token in the middle
  • it's supposed to parse only the first part
  • but it doesn't stop at the stop token
  • it's just a simple comparison of some sort
  • seems kinda weird

Allison:

  • maybe it is detecting it, but isn't working right
  • but if you're not using exceptions, there's no old exception handler lying around
  • so it's not that

Patrick:

  • I gave instructions on how to reproduce in my message

Allison:

  • my current patch probably won't fix that
  • it sounds unrelated

Patrick:

  • I might put some tracing in and run it through the harness
  • figure out why it's failing to detect that stop token
  • also a question for Larry
  • do we have an official leaning on method fallback?
  • are they in or out?

Larry:

  • assume they're out for now

Patrick:

  • I'm happy
  • I don't have to rewrite my dispatcher
  • can I start telling people to organize the test suite that way?

Larry:

  • sure

Patrick:

  • for the eval built-in, can someone take String.eval and have it do what you expect?

Larry:

  • yes

Patrick:

  • a method that's exported
  • great!

Jerry:

  • STD.pm parses itself
  • that's fantastic
  • is the LTM implementable now in Rakudo or elsewhere?

Larry:

  • essentially

Jerry:

  • is anything blocking that?

Patrick:

  • just time
  • but I plan to develop that under the grant
  • I think it'll be a significant chunk of code and research
  • don't want to do a bunch of PGE refactoring until the concurrency branch is back in trunk though

Jerry:

  • I want to get that merged as soon as possible
  • it won't make a lot of progress until we do
  • hope we can get it before OSCON, even though Allison will be busy

Allison:

  • there are only three failing tests

Jerry:

  • but HLLs don't work

Patrick:

  • I don't want to go into OSCON without languages working on trunk

Larry:

  • maybe a reverse merge?

Allison:

  • we do that regularly

c:

  • I just don't want to block everyone from doing anything until the code gets fixed

Patrick:

  • just about everyone who can fix it is on this call

Allison:

  • we're almost to the point where it's time for HLL implementors to work on it

c:

  • seems like we can pick the top three HLLs that need to work (Rakudo, Pheme, Punie)
  • make them pass
  • give the other HLL implementors a week to fix their stuff
  • then do the merge

Patrick:

  • just don't want to show off all of this nice stuff at OSCON, then say "Don't download trunk, it doesn't work"
  • but show off the new stuff in Rakudo that's not in the new release
  • a week makes a big difference, the way things are moving

c:

  • that could be 500 tests

Patrick:

  • thanks to Larry for jumping in on the design discussions
  • hope you're not frustrated

Larry:

  • it's all part of the job
  • I'd rather see progress than vice versa
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