Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments
NOTE: use Perl; is on undef hiatus. You can read content, but you can't post it. More info will be forthcoming forthcomingly.

All the Perl that's Practical to Extract and Report

use Perl Log In

Log In

[ Create a new account ]

chromatic (983)

chromatic
  (email not shown publicly)
http://wgz.org/chromatic/

Blog Information [technorati.com] Profile for chr0matic [technorati.com]

Journal of chromatic (983)

Thursday May 08, 2008
05:42 PM

Perl 6 Design Minutes for 07 May 2008

[ #36363 ]

The Perl 6 design team met by phone on 07 May 2008. Larry, Allison, Patrick, Will, Jerry, Nicholas, Jesse, and chromatic attended.

Allison:

  • spent my time this week slicing and dicing the exceptions implementation
  • replaced the old internals with the new system
  • checked that in yesterday
  • still a few failing tests in edge cases on the branch
  • did more work on the Parrot Foundation

c:

  • I own an acre of Mars, we could incorporate there

Allison:

  • don't you own a cow in the Philippines?

c:

  • yes, but that doesn't give me any governmental powers

Patrick:

  • isn't that worth a lot?

c:

  • the peso is improving against the dollar

Jesse:

  • moving on...

Larry:

  • clear bill of health from my medical reports
  • hacking a lot against the standard grammar in my STD5 implementation
  • lots of refactoring
  • all of the various parameters that used to go through separately now go through as part of the Match object
  • including the "fate" and whether we're peeking at the longest token set
  • the longest token matcher works now
  • I threw out my old mechanism for gathering Match objects
  • it now creates the more-or-less correctly
  • lots of grammar tweaks, as suggested by Mitchell Charity
  • lots of refactoring of how logging works so that it doesn't always spew enormous quantities of information to the screen
  • I can actually run the parser quite quickly now, for some definition of quickly that approximates 2000 characters per second
  • matches symbols directly, rather than calling a rule, which is faster
  • does the backoff now on longest token matching
  • started refactoring the grammar on the assumption that I cna trust the longest token matcher
  • no longer any nofat rule
  • the longest token should match the fat arrow, if there is one
  • started refactoring the quoting rules to parse as if they were sublanguages
  • getting rid of extra rigamarole to recreate the other mechanism we already use for other languages
  • working out the linkage for switching in and out of sublanguages
  • how to get to the outer language from the inner language
  • calling into pure Perl from closures in a regex
  • or the host language if you're calling the regex from another language
  • nailed down the available methods for Match objects in the specs
  • giving a talk in Seattle on Friday at SPU
  • flying to Japan on Saturday

Patrick:

  • spent a lot of time teaching this past week
  • cleared up now
  • mostly I've answered questions on mailing lists and IRC
  • I'm not always sure that I'm helpful, but I'm there
  • yesterday I worked on trying to get a bunch of little small things here and there
  • fixed up a few things in PCT internals
  • today I'm bringing PGE up to date with some of the latest changes in S05
  • these all help Rakudo and other languages in small ways
  • trying to clean out my backlog and clean up a bunch of RT tickets
  • I'll continue over the next couple of days
  • and blogging about it as I go

Jerry:

  • things are busy, mostly non-Parrot related stuff
  • submitted a ticket that I hope Patrick can close today

Patrick:

  • many languages depend on the old behavior, including Plumhead
  • I'm not certain about some of them

Jerry:

  • mostly otherwise answering questions on #parrot
  • making sure that things are set up for the real work phase of GSoC
  • making sure that students have their CLAs, if not commit bits
  • astonished to see how much work Jonathan is getting done in just two funded days
  • it's amazing to see how much a motivator money can be
  • I'd like to see more of it, hint hint

c:

  • working on closing as many open Parrot bugs as possible
  • applying as many open patches as possible
  • should be able to help on the concurrency branch soon
  • otherwise preparing for the release
  • going to check on received CLAs this week

Nicholas:

  • found it curious that Perl 5.10 has the best state implementation of any language
  • wanted to steal tests from another implementation
  • had a discussion with Leon about SMOP
  • there's no real description of how all of these implementations fit together
  • Rakudo plus Parrot is a complete implementation
  • SMOP and kp6 fit together nicely

Jesse:

  • I started a wiki page on the Perl 6 wiki at Perl_6_Implementations

Patrick:

  • I don't know that it says how things fit together

Jesse:

  • I tried to encourage other people to contribute stuff
  • didn't get much uptake

Nicholas:

  • should we suggest to Daniel that he should help explain things?

Jesse:

  • that's more likely to get people contributing to it

Will:

  • there's definitely some confusion about it within the Grants Committee

Jerry:

  • SMOP has the highest documentation-to-line-of-code ratio of any implementation

Patrick:

  • it needs a good overview though

Nicholas:

  • I'll ask Daniel to explain more
  • especially its relationship to Parrot and Rakudo

Jerry:

  • it sounds like it could be an alternate runcore for Perl 5 as well

Jesse:

  • tried a few different things
  • decided to write a test for Rakudo
  • tried a simple arithmetic test pulled from Pugs
  • found that Rakudo didn't implement a function specified in the S29 draft
  • Patrick helped me write a couple of lines of code to implement it
  • then discovered that fudge didn't support try blocks in a specific way
  • Larry patched that
  • then found that incrementing an undefined value didn't work in Rakudo
  • that was the end of my day
  • I still need to write up my findings
  • how easy is it for someone without experience in Rakudo and its internals to pick things up and contribute something?
  • more difficult than I thought it might be, but it's getting more doable
  • it's important to understand how it might fail before trying to get people to do it
  • then I started trying to play with MAD on the weekend
  • found and fixed a bug in its XML
  • refactored it such that you can run MAD's tests in the core if you add a copy of XML::Parser to the core
  • it's not far enough yet, but it's a start

Nicholas:

  • is it going to be difficult to restructure the Parrot foundation from 501(c)(3) to 501(c)(6)?

Allison:

  • you can do pretty much the same thing
  • sponsors are on the board in a c6
  • they're only advisory in a c3
  • the sponsors we've talked to are mostly only interested in getting regular status reports and the like

Jesse:

  • is there any jumping around to transfer copyright to the new foundation?

Allison:

  • we'll do a copyright assignment from the Perl Foundation to the Parrot Foundation
  • all of the CLAs that went into the code up to the point of signover will be fine
  • but we'll essentially copy the Perl Foundation CLA to a Parrot Foundation CLA

Will:

  • do we need to contact committers who haven't signed a CLA?

Patrick:

  • where does Rakudo fall?

Allison:

  • still under the Perl Foundation
  • it doesn't move at all

Will:

  • do we want to split up the repository at that point?

Allison:

  • eventually, we'll want to do so anyway
  • it's not an urgent thing

Jerry:

  • what would it take to version a Perl6Regex frontend to PGE?
  • let grammars specify a version of the grammar

Patrick:

  • I did that before by having a separate compiler
  • you're talking about something a bit finer grained
  • I don't want to do that
  • as we get closer to 1.0, that'd be fine
  • I already have enough to do keeping up with the latest versions

Will:

  • I don't think we want to keep up old versions

Patrick:

  • I don't mind sticking to our deprecation cycle
  • I hadn't put the change from today into the deprecation list yet
  • we'll get to it in a couple of weeks

Jerry:

  • just trying to figure out how to push forward with changes to PGE without having to update every language in the repository

Patrick:

  • freeze S05?
  • not a great solution

Larry:

  • I heard that

Patrick:

  • the last few changes have been great
  • I'm not really serious about that

Larry:

  • some of them you even asked for

c:

  • it's an advantage to have these languages in the repository
  • we can update them
  • but only if we can run the tests before and after and know that they pass

Will:

  • we might consider removing languages with failing tests and no recent updates
  • there are 17 grant proposals, some of them Perl 6-related
  • please comment on the TPF blog
  • it'll help

Jesse:

  • blog.perlfoundation.org
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More | Login | Reply
Loading... please wait.
  • Nicholas:

    • I'll ask Daniel to explain more
    • especially its relationship to Parrot and Rakudo

    I did this. Foolish mortal that I am, I also volunteered to update the wiki with Daniel's e-mail explanation, so it now has a longer introduction to SMOP [perlfoundation.org].